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This is great because I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders and maybe they will start looking at immuno

This is great because I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders and maybe they will start looking at immunoneurology to start finally curing mood disorders. For example, we know that stress effects the immune system by lowering T Cells, and we know that stress makes people depressed, so would it not follow that lower T Cells makes people depressed? (T Cells make IL10) Prozac makes me manic in a heart beat, literally one 10mg tablet (I have Bipolar Disorder) and they find higher levels of IL-10 in people with Bipolar. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10357918/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10357918/ And IL-10 increases serotonin activity as well: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23410504/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23410504/ So we should assume that lower IL10 could be a metabolic marker for depression.

kerkeslager 2y ago
> This is great because I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders and maybe they will start looking at immunoneurology to start finally curing mood disorders. Christ, please stop talking about science if your approach is going to be "I'm a huge believer in this hypothesis so any research which supports that hypothesis is great". We don't need more lunacy in science discourse. "The immune system is at the core of some mood disorders" is a reasonable hypothesis which is quite possibly true, given what we know. It certainly warrants more research, but I haven't seen anything conclusive enough to justify being "a huge believer". "The immune system is at the core of all mood disorders" is an actually bad hypothesis which untestable. > For example, we know that stress effects the immune system by lowering T Cells, and we know that stress makes people depressed, so would it not follow that lower T Cells makes people depressed? (T Cells make IL10) No, that does not follow. You're literally describing an A -> B, A -> C situation, which does not imply that B -> C. This is very, very basic causality reasoning you're screwing up here. Less confidence/arrogance/belief and more "maybe" and "possibly" would do you well here.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  What do I mean by "I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders"? It means i think this is the direction research should take. It means if people have mood disorders they should see an immunologist first, becasue this is how we can find out right now if it is true. (Many people with Lupus do not know they had Lupus and they were institutionalized with neuropsychiatric lupus and never got the help they needed. My mother was one of them. And see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFX6OnSlng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFX6OnSlng That is the suffering those of us with immune issues have to put up with. Does it mean I just want science to prove my belief correct? Of course not. What you need to do is stop being so overly dramatic. What I do believe is more and more research is pointing to Neuroimmunology as the basis for most mental illnesses. Which means I am excited. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6693968/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6693968/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cen3.12639 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cen3.12639 > No, that does not follow. You're literally describing an A -> B, A -> C situation, which does not imply that B -> C. Of course, yes, correlation is not causation until it is proven. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For eff sake, I was just excited and not I had to waste my time explaining this to you and you ruined everything. But let me tell you a story. Both times I caught COVID I had the worst psychosis of my life. And when I a sick with anything, there goes my mood as well. So if that does not tell you the immune system effects mental illness, what will? I mean, to me it seems stupid that people would disagree that the immune system causes mood changes. Who feels happy when they have the flu? And if you knew anything about the tryptophan -> Kynurenine/serotonin pathway you would be even more excited about this discovery. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-kynurenine-pathway-Tryptophan-TRP-the-precursor-for-serotonin-5-HT-can-also-be_fig5_299389444 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-kynurenine-pathway-T... If you do not get excited, what kind of scientists are you? The most boring and uncreative kind I would say.
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    > What do I mean by "I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders"? > It means i think this is the direction research should take. If you meant "We should research whether mood disorders have their roots in the immune system," you should have said that instead of the absurd thing you actually said. > It means if people have mood disorders they should see an immunologist first, becasue this is how we can find out right now if it is true. Uh, no, it doesn't mean that. In fact in extreme cases, you're dangerously wrong. Someone who is on the verge of committing suicide should not see a immunologist first, because an immunologist as they are commonly educated today is not equipped to deal with a patient on the verge of suicide. Maybe immunotherapy will be a part of the long-term solution for that patient, but they'll never make it to that point if they kill themselves first. You are giving quack medical advice. Stop. > Does it mean I just want science to prove my belief correct? Of course not. What you need to do is stop being so overly dramatic. What I do believe is more and more research is pointing to Neuroimmunology as the basis for most mental illnesses. Which means I am excited. Sorry, the words "I'm a huge believer" which you actually said actually do mean that you have already come to a conclusion no matter what future science might say. If you didn't mean to say that, fine, but that is actually what the words you said mean. > For eff sake, I was just excited and not I had to waste my time explaining this to you and you ruined everything. I didn't ruin anything. You said something completely, 100% false, and being excited is not an excuse for that. > But let me tell you a story. Both times I caught COVID I had the worst psychosis of my life. And when I a sick with anything, there goes my mood as well. So if that does not tell you the immune system effects mental illness, what will? If you had said something as vague as "the immune system effects mental illness" I would not had any objection. That is not what you said. > I mean, to me it seems stupid that people would disagree that the immune system causes mood changes. Who feels happy when they have the flu? Acute emotions caused by a short-term infection are not a mood disorder. The incorrect claim you made which I disagreed with was about mood disorders. > If you do not get excited, what kind of scientists are you? The most boring and uncreative kind I would say. I am excited about new research and the potential therapies it will likely result in. What I'm not excited about is your pseudo-scientific stream of consciousness. What you said, wasn't true, it wasn't science, and it wasn't exciting. What you said was a sloppily-worded over-confident claim that is plainly not true, and only vaguely resembles a claim that might be proven true in the future.

kerkeslager 2y ago

> This is great because I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders and maybe they will start looking at immunoneurology to start finally curing mood disorders. Christ, please stop talking about science if your approach is going to be "I'm a huge believer in this hypothesis so any research which supports that hypothesis is great". We don't need more lunacy in science discourse. "The immune system is at the core of some mood disorders" is a reasonable hypothesis which is quite possibly true, given what we know. It certainly warrants more research, but I haven't seen anything conclusive enough to justify being "a huge believer". "The immune system is at the core of all mood disorders" is an actually bad hypothesis which untestable. > For example, we know that stress effects the immune system by lowering T Cells, and we know that stress makes people depressed, so would it not follow that lower T Cells makes people depressed? (T Cells make IL10) No, that does not follow. You're literally describing an A -> B, A -> C situation, which does not imply that B -> C. This is very, very basic causality reasoning you're screwing up here. Less confidence/arrogance/belief and more "maybe" and "possibly" would do you well here.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
What do I mean by "I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders"? It means i think this is the direction research should take. It means if people have mood disorders they should see an immunologist first, becasue this is how we can find out right now if it is true. (Many people with Lupus do not know they had Lupus and they were institutionalized with neuropsychiatric lupus and never got the help they needed. My mother was one of them. And see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFX6OnSlng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXFX6OnSlng That is the suffering those of us with immune issues have to put up with. Does it mean I just want science to prove my belief correct? Of course not. What you need to do is stop being so overly dramatic. What I do believe is more and more research is pointing to Neuroimmunology as the basis for most mental illnesses. Which means I am excited. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6693968/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6693968/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cen3.12639 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cen3.12639 > No, that does not follow. You're literally describing an A -> B, A -> C situation, which does not imply that B -> C. Of course, yes, correlation is not causation until it is proven. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For eff sake, I was just excited and not I had to waste my time explaining this to you and you ruined everything. But let me tell you a story. Both times I caught COVID I had the worst psychosis of my life. And when I a sick with anything, there goes my mood as well. So if that does not tell you the immune system effects mental illness, what will? I mean, to me it seems stupid that people would disagree that the immune system causes mood changes. Who feels happy when they have the flu? And if you knew anything about the tryptophan -> Kynurenine/serotonin pathway you would be even more excited about this discovery. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-kynurenine-pathway-Tryptophan-TRP-the-precursor-for-serotonin-5-HT-can-also-be_fig5_299389444 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-kynurenine-pathway-T... If you do not get excited, what kind of scientists are you? The most boring and uncreative kind I would say.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  > What do I mean by "I am a huge believer that the immune system is at the core of many, if not all, mood disorders"? > It means i think this is the direction research should take. If you meant "We should research whether mood disorders have their roots in the immune system," you should have said that instead of the absurd thing you actually said. > It means if people have mood disorders they should see an immunologist first, becasue this is how we can find out right now if it is true. Uh, no, it doesn't mean that. In fact in extreme cases, you're dangerously wrong. Someone who is on the verge of committing suicide should not see a immunologist first, because an immunologist as they are commonly educated today is not equipped to deal with a patient on the verge of suicide. Maybe immunotherapy will be a part of the long-term solution for that patient, but they'll never make it to that point if they kill themselves first. You are giving quack medical advice. Stop. > Does it mean I just want science to prove my belief correct? Of course not. What you need to do is stop being so overly dramatic. What I do believe is more and more research is pointing to Neuroimmunology as the basis for most mental illnesses. Which means I am excited. Sorry, the words "I'm a huge believer" which you actually said actually do mean that you have already come to a conclusion no matter what future science might say. If you didn't mean to say that, fine, but that is actually what the words you said mean. > For eff sake, I was just excited and not I had to waste my time explaining this to you and you ruined everything. I didn't ruin anything. You said something completely, 100% false, and being excited is not an excuse for that. > But let me tell you a story. Both times I caught COVID I had the worst psychosis of my life. And when I a sick with anything, there goes my mood as well. So if that does not tell you the immune system effects mental illness, what will? If you had said something as vague as "the immune system effects mental illness" I would not had any objection. That is not what you said. > I mean, to me it seems stupid that people would disagree that the immune system causes mood changes. Who feels happy when they have the flu? Acute emotions caused by a short-term infection are not a mood disorder. The incorrect claim you made which I disagreed with was about mood disorders. > If you do not get excited, what kind of scientists are you? The most boring and uncreative kind I would say. I am excited about new research and the potential therapies it will likely result in. What I'm not excited about is your pseudo-scientific stream of consciousness. What you said, wasn't true, it wasn't science, and it wasn't exciting. What you said was a sloppily-worded over-confident claim that is plainly not true, and only vaguely resembles a claim that might be proven true in the future.