4 ms·

> To be clear, you're comparing anti-semites (a racist "group") with Jews (an ethnic/religious group). One is defined by holding a targeted, hateful ideology. T

by alt227 2y ago

> To be clear, you're comparing anti-semites (a racist "group") with Jews (an ethnic/religious group). One is defined by holding a targeted, hateful ideology. The other is a group of human beings, by birth/existence. I disagree. In this context they are 2 groups of people who disagree about something, everything else is irrelevant. It is your opinion to colour one side or the other 'hateful', 'racist' or any other word. You are applying your opionin and bias to other people arguments to paint one side better than the other. Take this same opinion and apply it to Israel/Palestine, and suddenly it becomes not so clear cut. Both sides claim something about the other side, and both are killing each other because if it. In this instance, who would you call hateful and racist? It completely depends on who you sympathise with as there is no correct answer here. It is no different to any other groups of people who you are not part of.

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
> I disagree. In this context they are 2 groups of people who disagree about something, everything else is irrelevant. This is an absurdly disingenuous way of phrasing the situation. One group is ideological and defined by its generalized hatred towards members of the other, while the other group is an ethnic/religious group. Being jewish does not imply that you subscribe to any particular opinion or identify with either end of the political spectrum. There is no possible way this can simply be seen as as a disagreement between "two sides". Your attempt to equate this to the Israel/Palestine conflict is equally absurd. The Hamas and the government of Israel are both committing heinous acts of terrorism in the name of hatred, bigotry and racism.
- alt227 2y ago
  Thats fine, we can disagree :) I dont agree with your definitions or opinions and thats OK, we have the right to do that. Are you affording me the same courtesy? Because it sounds like you are not.
  - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
    Yeah, sure, you can have your opinions, I have never claimed otherwise. My opinion is that your opinion is absurd and apologetic of hatred and racism. It does not matter how politely you formulate your opinion if it legitimizes racism by reduction to a "two sides" argument. Merely existing as a religious or ethnic group is not the same as expressing an opinion, and it doesn't legitimize the expression of unqualified hatred towards the same group. We should tolerate the expression of opinions which we disagree with, but I think there is a limit, and we should not tolerate intolerance.
    - alt227 2y ago
      > It does not matter how politely you formulate your opinion if it legitimizes racism by reduction to a "two sides" argument. The problem is, and I'm sure you wont agree here, is that what constitutes racism is subjective. This is because the strength of the definition of 'prejudice' differs from person to person. Some people say racism is when you make big decisions that negatively affect a whole race of people, other people say its when you say a rude word to a black or gay person. See this enojoyable opinion of a black man on white peoples ideas of racism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8k5uj8AyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8k5uj8AyA There is no universal definition of racism which the whole world subscribes to. If you think there is, then you need to see that thats just your opinion and you have made yourself think everybody else agrees with you. It seems that you think you have your definition of racism wrapped up with a bow, and that the rest of the world should agree with you on what that is. Unfortunately the world doesnt work like that, and unless you are willing to discuss these things without calling the other side 'absurd' and actually start exploring these topics properly then it will always devolve into a 'sides' argument. > we should not tolerate intolerance But right now you are being intolerant of me, so should I not tolerate you back? Again, the definition of tolerance is subjective. Until we can all tolerate every other persons opinion to the point we can calmly debate it, then we will not get anywhere in purging prejudice from the world.
unclebucknasty 2y ago
>It is your opinion to colour one side or the other 'hateful', 'racist' You should look up the word, antisemite. >Take this same opinion and apply... I understand why you'd want to change the subject, but no. I also understand why you ignored the rest of my comment. I see now that you're a promoter of exactly the insidious "hate as an equal right" mantra that turned Twitter into what it is today. While it's infected too many people, it is heartening to watch the exodus underway that's rapidly evolving it into a 4chan-esque echo chamber.
- alt227 2y ago
  Definition of antisemite: a person who is prejudiced against Jewish people Prejudice is completely different to hate. They are often associated but are not the same. > I see now that you're a promoter of exactly the insidious "hate as an equal right" mantra that turned Twitter into what it is today. You seem very quick to label and categorise people into boxes about what they think about. Be careful, that is a very dangerous road to go down as history has proved time and time again.
  - unclebucknasty 2y ago
    >Definition of antisemite Your abridged definition is your cartoonish admission that you're aware that you're wrong. With just a little more cleverness you could have easily avoided that reveal and actually challenged me. >You seem very quick to label... Ah yes, the old, "labeling the labelers is the real problem here" routine. I'm seeing now that you're just kind of a lazy troll—boring and unimaginative. This is where I exit. Feel free to carry on with yourself!
    - alt227 2y ago
      > I'm seeing now that you're just kind of a lazy troll—boring and unimaginative. Theres a main difference between you and I here which is becoming quite apparent at this point. I respect your right to think and say anything you like. I have no issue with you or your opinions, and you are free to express them against me as you wish. This is the whole basis for all my posts as can plainly be seen. You seem to have very strong feelings against me, resorting to labelling and name calling very quickly. You dont seem to respect my opinion or right to have one. You seem to think I am 'wrong' in the general sense, yet have nothing other than your opinion of me, a random person on the internet, to back that up. Carry on with your offense throwing, I completely respect your right to express yourself in that way and will not tell you you are wrong or you should stop:)

by alt227 2y ago

ulrikrasmussen 2y ago

> I disagree. In this context they are 2 groups of people who disagree about something, everything else is irrelevant. This is an absurdly disingenuous way of phrasing the situation. One group is ideological and defined by its generalized hatred towards members of the other, while the other group is an ethnic/religious group. Being jewish does not imply that you subscribe to any particular opinion or identify with either end of the political spectrum. There is no possible way this can simply be seen as as a disagreement between "two sides". Your attempt to equate this to the Israel/Palestine conflict is equally absurd. The Hamas and the government of Israel are both committing heinous acts of terrorism in the name of hatred, bigotry and racism.

alt227 2y ago
Thats fine, we can disagree :) I dont agree with your definitions or opinions and thats OK, we have the right to do that. Are you affording me the same courtesy? Because it sounds like you are not.
- ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
  Yeah, sure, you can have your opinions, I have never claimed otherwise. My opinion is that your opinion is absurd and apologetic of hatred and racism. It does not matter how politely you formulate your opinion if it legitimizes racism by reduction to a "two sides" argument. Merely existing as a religious or ethnic group is not the same as expressing an opinion, and it doesn't legitimize the expression of unqualified hatred towards the same group. We should tolerate the expression of opinions which we disagree with, but I think there is a limit, and we should not tolerate intolerance.
  - alt227 2y ago
    > It does not matter how politely you formulate your opinion if it legitimizes racism by reduction to a "two sides" argument. The problem is, and I'm sure you wont agree here, is that what constitutes racism is subjective. This is because the strength of the definition of 'prejudice' differs from person to person. Some people say racism is when you make big decisions that negatively affect a whole race of people, other people say its when you say a rude word to a black or gay person. See this enojoyable opinion of a black man on white peoples ideas of racism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8k5uj8AyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8k5uj8AyA There is no universal definition of racism which the whole world subscribes to. If you think there is, then you need to see that thats just your opinion and you have made yourself think everybody else agrees with you. It seems that you think you have your definition of racism wrapped up with a bow, and that the rest of the world should agree with you on what that is. Unfortunately the world doesnt work like that, and unless you are willing to discuss these things without calling the other side 'absurd' and actually start exploring these topics properly then it will always devolve into a 'sides' argument. > we should not tolerate intolerance But right now you are being intolerant of me, so should I not tolerate you back? Again, the definition of tolerance is subjective. Until we can all tolerate every other persons opinion to the point we can calmly debate it, then we will not get anywhere in purging prejudice from the world.

unclebucknasty 2y ago

>It is your opinion to colour one side or the other 'hateful', 'racist' You should look up the word, antisemite. >Take this same opinion and apply... I understand why you'd want to change the subject, but no. I also understand why you ignored the rest of my comment. I see now that you're a promoter of exactly the insidious "hate as an equal right" mantra that turned Twitter into what it is today. While it's infected too many people, it is heartening to watch the exodus underway that's rapidly evolving it into a 4chan-esque echo chamber.

alt227 2y ago
Definition of antisemite: a person who is prejudiced against Jewish people Prejudice is completely different to hate. They are often associated but are not the same. > I see now that you're a promoter of exactly the insidious "hate as an equal right" mantra that turned Twitter into what it is today. You seem very quick to label and categorise people into boxes about what they think about. Be careful, that is a very dangerous road to go down as history has proved time and time again.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  >Definition of antisemite Your abridged definition is your cartoonish admission that you're aware that you're wrong. With just a little more cleverness you could have easily avoided that reveal and actually challenged me. >You seem very quick to label... Ah yes, the old, "labeling the labelers is the real problem here" routine. I'm seeing now that you're just kind of a lazy troll—boring and unimaginative. This is where I exit. Feel free to carry on with yourself!
  - alt227 2y ago
    > I'm seeing now that you're just kind of a lazy troll—boring and unimaginative. Theres a main difference between you and I here which is becoming quite apparent at this point. I respect your right to think and say anything you like. I have no issue with you or your opinions, and you are free to express them against me as you wish. This is the whole basis for all my posts as can plainly be seen. You seem to have very strong feelings against me, resorting to labelling and name calling very quickly. You dont seem to respect my opinion or right to have one. You seem to think I am 'wrong' in the general sense, yet have nothing other than your opinion of me, a random person on the internet, to back that up. Carry on with your offense throwing, I completely respect your right to express yourself in that way and will not tell you you are wrong or you should stop:)