4 ms·

Prior to Musk's purchase of Twitter, feminists who expressed the view that women and girls need single-sex spaces, and that males who identify as women aren't a

by dettil 2y ago

Prior to Musk's purchase of Twitter, feminists who expressed the view that women and girls need single-sex spaces, and that males who identify as women aren't actually women and therefore shouldn't be allowed in these spaces, would be banned from the platform under the guise of "transphobia". They were literally being silenced for expressing their criticism of the ideology of gender identity and how it is being used to disadvantage and oppress women and girls. On X, however, they are free to state this without fear of censorship, due to the broadening of permissible speech on the platform. So while it might not be the "free speech absolutism" that Musk disingenuously claims, it's an improvement to the pre-Musk era of censorship.

Me000 2y ago
I don’t have the freedom to say how I feel this. But I have been studying the great helmsman recently and soon we will all have an exchange of views.
4ndrewl 2y ago
The difference is that freedom of speech is concerned with what the Government allows you to talk about. X, through Musk, is now a quasi-governmental platform - as can demonstrated by actions like this.
- dettil 2y ago
  I agree that is true regarding freedom of speech laws. But many organisations, including social media platforms, have policies regarding freedom of speech as well. Universities are another such example, as free speech is an essential component of academic freedom.
JohnMakin 2y ago
This is a flat out falsehood - jk rowling was spewing anti trans hate from the position of “feminism” long before the purchase of twitter, she was never “censored” or anything close to it. This is revisionist bs, framed in a way to make your dear leader look like the hero, and not the incompetent anti free speech nitwit he actually is.
- dettil 2y ago
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48366184 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48366184 You should perhaps do more research before making claims like "flat out falsehood".
  - JohnMakin 2y ago
    Even this article doesn’t go out of its way to say that’s why she was banned - this is according to her. Even if this terrible source were true and you found a single case - it doesnt change the fact at all at what I said, the single loudest feminist anti trans voice is still alive and well on twitter and has never faced a lick of censorship on twitter or now X. So yea, it’s a falsehood. Musk didnt “change” anything here. It’s revisionist nonsense.
    - dettil 2y ago
      I could search X and provide many more examples, including from feminists who appealed and were unbanned after Musk took over the company, others from screenshots posted of emails with the reason for the ban. Would that change your view?
      - JohnMakin 2y ago
        The original claim: “before musk you as a feminist could not state (common anti trans positions held by feminists of a certain flavor)” I provided the single biggest counterexample ever in JK rowling, so the original post is either a falsehood (I believe so) or very wrong, hope that’s more clear to you, since you seem to have issues following here. You could search it yet you don’t provide those examples here which is why I’m not taking anything you’re saying in good faith because it isn’t. if you’re curious why I think that, read again the first part of this comment.
        dettil 2y ago
        It seems to me that you've misread my original comment as stating that all feminists who spoke out against the misogyny of gender identity ideology on Twitter were banned. This isn't what I said or what I meant. To elaborate a bit more: in addition to the then-permanent bans, there was also a considerable amount of self-censorship amongst those who hadn't been banned (or had only been temporarily suspended), to avoid wording their views in such a way that may be disfavoured by Twitter's censorial policies. JKR is an interesting counterexample for a number of reasons. One is that she was very careful and tempered in her language, as one may expect from an expert writer and of someone with her keen perception of language. If you search her tweets on this topic prior to Musk's ownership (e.g. "from:jk_rowling until:2022-04-14 trans" in the X search box) you'll see what I mean. Another is that she spoke out on this topic fairly late on, and so would have witnessed the censorship and been aware of how best to express her views around these limitations. There is also the fact that hers is and was one of Twitter's most-followed accounts and in practice that would give her more leeway in terms of freedom of expression. I could search X to confirm to you what I personally witnessed with regard to feminists who aren't JKR being censored and banned, but that would take some effort and I'm not yet convinced that it would be worth it, given that you're engaging with an attitude of aggressive cross-examination rather than curiosity and open-mindedness. This is also why I enquired as to if it might change your view.

by dettil 2y ago

Me000 2y ago

I don’t have the freedom to say how I feel this. But I have been studying the great helmsman recently and soon we will all have an exchange of views.

4ndrewl 2y ago

The difference is that freedom of speech is concerned with what the Government allows you to talk about. X, through Musk, is now a quasi-governmental platform - as can demonstrated by actions like this.

dettil 2y ago
I agree that is true regarding freedom of speech laws. But many organisations, including social media platforms, have policies regarding freedom of speech as well. Universities are another such example, as free speech is an essential component of academic freedom.

JohnMakin 2y ago

This is a flat out falsehood - jk rowling was spewing anti trans hate from the position of “feminism” long before the purchase of twitter, she was never “censored” or anything close to it. This is revisionist bs, framed in a way to make your dear leader look like the hero, and not the incompetent anti free speech nitwit he actually is.

dettil 2y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48366184 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48366184 You should perhaps do more research before making claims like "flat out falsehood".
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  Even this article doesn’t go out of its way to say that’s why she was banned - this is according to her. Even if this terrible source were true and you found a single case - it doesnt change the fact at all at what I said, the single loudest feminist anti trans voice is still alive and well on twitter and has never faced a lick of censorship on twitter or now X. So yea, it’s a falsehood. Musk didnt “change” anything here. It’s revisionist nonsense.
  - dettil 2y ago
    I could search X and provide many more examples, including from feminists who appealed and were unbanned after Musk took over the company, others from screenshots posted of emails with the reason for the ban. Would that change your view?
    - JohnMakin 2y ago
      The original claim: “before musk you as a feminist could not state (common anti trans positions held by feminists of a certain flavor)” I provided the single biggest counterexample ever in JK rowling, so the original post is either a falsehood (I believe so) or very wrong, hope that’s more clear to you, since you seem to have issues following here. You could search it yet you don’t provide those examples here which is why I’m not taking anything you’re saying in good faith because it isn’t. if you’re curious why I think that, read again the first part of this comment.
      - dettil 2y ago
        It seems to me that you've misread my original comment as stating that all feminists who spoke out against the misogyny of gender identity ideology on Twitter were banned. This isn't what I said or what I meant. To elaborate a bit more: in addition to the then-permanent bans, there was also a considerable amount of self-censorship amongst those who hadn't been banned (or had only been temporarily suspended), to avoid wording their views in such a way that may be disfavoured by Twitter's censorial policies. JKR is an interesting counterexample for a number of reasons. One is that she was very careful and tempered in her language, as one may expect from an expert writer and of someone with her keen perception of language. If you search her tweets on this topic prior to Musk's ownership (e.g. "from:jk_rowling until:2022-04-14 trans" in the X search box) you'll see what I mean. Another is that she spoke out on this topic fairly late on, and so would have witnessed the censorship and been aware of how best to express her views around these limitations. There is also the fact that hers is and was one of Twitter's most-followed accounts and in practice that would give her more leeway in terms of freedom of expression. I could search X to confirm to you what I personally witnessed with regard to feminists who aren't JKR being censored and banned, but that would take some effort and I'm not yet convinced that it would be worth it, given that you're engaging with an attitude of aggressive cross-examination rather than curiosity and open-mindedness. This is also why I enquired as to if it might change your view.