4 ms·

Way too many nice things get destroyed because people don’t appreciate that it is done on a best effort basis.

ghaff 2y ago
Maintainer burnout is certainly one of the memes in open source at the moment. I suspect that some of it has to do with various pressures at commercial software companies these days that make it harder for developers trying to carve off some time on the side. Overall increased dependence on open source software generally also probably plays a role. If your job depends on some upstream bug being fixed, it increases potential tensions.
- arkh 2y ago
  > If your job depends on some upstream bug being fixed, it increases potential tensions. Same problem with commercial software: if you need a bug fixed asap there are not a lot of solutions. At least with open source software you can fork and fix while waiting for the upstream resolution. But you can also go the commercial way of doing things: contact their sales dept and shell out what they're asking for to prioritize your problem. I'm sure some open source maintainer would be happy to make your bug their next priority for a big enough payment.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    >there are not a lot of solutions Not a lot but you pretty much always have the option of engaging with consulting. $$$ of course. If it's really a bug rather than some sort of fork, not too bad. Presumably the bug will simply be fixed, albeit prioritized. Otherwise not clear if your different use case will be maintained other than in maybe a customized way. It is easier with open source though also albeit not a perfect solution if you're out of the mainstream.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    > Same problem with commercial software: if you need a bug fixed asap there are not a lot of solutions. I purchase software for MacOS, and whenever I've contacted developers about a bug, they've usually resolved it within a few days at most. If I submit a bug report for FOSS it gets ignored for years at best. You get what you pay for.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Purchased software presumably has some level of dedicated support staff whether the primary developer or something else. I don't expect someone who developed as a hobby to be "on call" or to prioritize a request--and it may be pretty inactive in many cases.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        That's what's great about it. And if a paying customer gives feedback, you already know that they represent an important user segment that are worth listening to: Paying customers.
        ghaff 2y ago
        When I did shareware, I did have some pretty dedicated beta testers who were good sources of input. It wasn't the money--heck, they payed me something like $15. But, yeah, I agree in general. If you're a business the feedback of paying customers is pretty much what matters.
    - surajrmal 2y ago
      Why is there an expectation that a bug you filed against an open source project should get resolved? If you expect a solution there usually requires that you take some effort and contribute. In larger projects there may be more interested parties that are simply looking for work (eg college students trying to build a resume), but maintainers themselves are not necessarily obligated to fix your problems. I very much hope it becomes the norm that all filed bugs should have bounties associated with fixing them.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        > Why is there an expectation that a bug you filed against an open source project should get resolved? There is no such expectation and that's why I always avoid open source software and am happy to pay a fair price for high quality software. > If you expect a solution there usually requires that you take some effort and contribute. I'm not a programmer, and neither are 99% of computer users. We are happy to contribute with our cash money for working solutions. > I very much hope it becomes the norm that all filed bugs should have bounties associated with fixing them. That's the only fair solution.
- Tostino 2y ago
  I developed a couple open source projects that my startup used and got some small adoption. I was essentially unable to maintain them using company resources after we were acquired last. Telus had no open source strategy for giving back at all. Not even on projects they "owned". I'm sure it's similar in quite a few large companies.

Maintainer burnout is certainly one of the memes in open source at the moment. I suspect that some of it has to do with various pressures at commercial software companies these days that make it harder for developers trying to carve off some time on the side. Overall increased dependence on open source software generally also probably plays a role. If your job depends on some upstream bug being fixed, it increases potential tensions.

arkh 2y ago
> If your job depends on some upstream bug being fixed, it increases potential tensions. Same problem with commercial software: if you need a bug fixed asap there are not a lot of solutions. At least with open source software you can fork and fix while waiting for the upstream resolution. But you can also go the commercial way of doing things: contact their sales dept and shell out what they're asking for to prioritize your problem. I'm sure some open source maintainer would be happy to make your bug their next priority for a big enough payment.
- ghaff 2y ago
  >there are not a lot of solutions Not a lot but you pretty much always have the option of engaging with consulting. $$$ of course. If it's really a bug rather than some sort of fork, not too bad. Presumably the bug will simply be fixed, albeit prioritized. Otherwise not clear if your different use case will be maintained other than in maybe a customized way. It is easier with open source though also albeit not a perfect solution if you're out of the mainstream.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > Same problem with commercial software: if you need a bug fixed asap there are not a lot of solutions. I purchase software for MacOS, and whenever I've contacted developers about a bug, they've usually resolved it within a few days at most. If I submit a bug report for FOSS it gets ignored for years at best. You get what you pay for.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Purchased software presumably has some level of dedicated support staff whether the primary developer or something else. I don't expect someone who developed as a hobby to be "on call" or to prioritize a request--and it may be pretty inactive in many cases.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      That's what's great about it. And if a paying customer gives feedback, you already know that they represent an important user segment that are worth listening to: Paying customers.
      - ghaff 2y ago
        When I did shareware, I did have some pretty dedicated beta testers who were good sources of input. It wasn't the money--heck, they payed me something like $15. But, yeah, I agree in general. If you're a business the feedback of paying customers is pretty much what matters.
  - surajrmal 2y ago
    Why is there an expectation that a bug you filed against an open source project should get resolved? If you expect a solution there usually requires that you take some effort and contribute. In larger projects there may be more interested parties that are simply looking for work (eg college students trying to build a resume), but maintainers themselves are not necessarily obligated to fix your problems. I very much hope it becomes the norm that all filed bugs should have bounties associated with fixing them.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      > Why is there an expectation that a bug you filed against an open source project should get resolved? There is no such expectation and that's why I always avoid open source software and am happy to pay a fair price for high quality software. > If you expect a solution there usually requires that you take some effort and contribute. I'm not a programmer, and neither are 99% of computer users. We are happy to contribute with our cash money for working solutions. > I very much hope it becomes the norm that all filed bugs should have bounties associated with fixing them. That's the only fair solution.
Tostino 2y ago
I developed a couple open source projects that my startup used and got some small adoption. I was essentially unable to maintain them using company resources after we were acquired last. Telus had no open source strategy for giving back at all. Not even on projects they "owned". I'm sure it's similar in quite a few large companies.