4 ms·

I think that is mostly because the perpetrators are often in a different country than victims. There is no global law or enforcement of rules, but the internet

I think that is mostly because the perpetrators are often in a different country than victims. There is no global law or enforcement of rules, but the internet is global. That is a fundamental mismatch in my eyes.

dathinab 2y ago
or ... because huge companies make a ton of money from it and pay lobbyist enough Like it really isn't that rare to have issues where people tell you "nothing can be done, it's from outside of our country" or similar. And then you travel and realize, it's a "your country" issue and many or even most other countries have fixed it or at least massively reduced it and the whole "criminals are in another country" thing didn't prevent them from fixing it... This e.g. is the case for US spam/scam/robo calls (which isn't "fully fixed" anywhere but starkly reduced by in many places including e.g. the EU).
- gruez 2y ago
  >or ... because huge companies make a ton of money from it and pay lobbyist enough Which companies are making money off frauds like pig butchering scams? I think you're overestimating how competent the state is and underestimating how hard it is to solve problems like these. For instance, we can barely dissuade other countries from buying Iranian and Russian oil, and there's pretty much bipartisan consensus on that.
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > Which companies are making money off frauds like pig butchering scams? Companies that own dating apps. > I think you're overestimating how competent the state is I fully agree. The U.S. state is quite incompetent. > and underestimating how hard it is to solve problems like these "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" Have you thought of blocking countries that permit malicious activity to cross international borders? Have you thought of blocking their IP addresses? Or is that international money just too good to let a "little bit" of malicious activity befall upon your fellow citizens?
    - gruez 2y ago
      >Companies that own dating apps. And they're lobbying against which regulations that would stop them? >Have you thought of blocking countries that permit malicious activity to cross international borders? Have you thought of blocking their IP addresses? The financial system is far more centralized than the internet and at least theoretically has KYC, but US sanctions against enemy states, terrorist groups, and drug gangs are as airtight as a sieve. What makes you so sure that IP blocking countries will have any effect, when anyone can buy a no-log VPN for $5/month?
      - inetknght 2y ago
        The grandparent claimed: > I think that is mostly because the perpetrators are often in a different country than victims. So, your comment here is moving the goalpost: > What makes you so sure that IP blocking countries will have any effect, when anyone can buy a no-log VPN for $5/month? If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in foreign countries, then see previous comment about blocking foreign countries. Block foreign countries at the interconnect until they enact and enforce laws which address the malicious activity. If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in your own country then you need only convince your law enforcement to enforce existing computer crime laws. Renting a server for $5/mo requires payment and payment provides a name & address to prosecute. All you need is to demonstrate that the malicious activity originated from the rented IP address and during the rental period.
        gruez 2y ago
        >So, your comment here is moving the goalpost: There's no point in implementing measures that would be trivially bypassed but cause great economic and societal harm in the process (ie. creating some sort of KYC regime for the internet, or causing millions to be cut off from the internet). China, arguably one of the most draconian states out there, and the home of pig butchering scams can barely keep a lid on it. Countries like the US that emphasize civil liberties and free trade don't stand a chance. >If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in your own country then you need only convince your law enforcement to enforce existing computer crime laws. Renting a server for $5/mo requires payment and payment provides a name & address to prosecute. You can pay for no-log VPNs using crypto or anonymous gift cards. Apple, Google, and others even have 2-hop VPNs that theoretically make it impossible for the provider to log connections even if they wanted to. Not to mention, there are many countries, including the US where you can get prepaid SIMs without presenting any sort of ID and pay with cash. Even if you were some how able to enforce an airtight KYC regime for the internet (doubtful, given how well that works for the financial system), you still have to contend with compromised routers/IOT devices and shady apps that act as proxies for bad guys.

dathinab 2y ago

or ... because huge companies make a ton of money from it and pay lobbyist enough Like it really isn't that rare to have issues where people tell you "nothing can be done, it's from outside of our country" or similar. And then you travel and realize, it's a "your country" issue and many or even most other countries have fixed it or at least massively reduced it and the whole "criminals are in another country" thing didn't prevent them from fixing it... This e.g. is the case for US spam/scam/robo calls (which isn't "fully fixed" anywhere but starkly reduced by in many places including e.g. the EU).

gruez 2y ago
>or ... because huge companies make a ton of money from it and pay lobbyist enough Which companies are making money off frauds like pig butchering scams? I think you're overestimating how competent the state is and underestimating how hard it is to solve problems like these. For instance, we can barely dissuade other countries from buying Iranian and Russian oil, and there's pretty much bipartisan consensus on that.
- inetknght 2y ago
  > Which companies are making money off frauds like pig butchering scams? Companies that own dating apps. > I think you're overestimating how competent the state is I fully agree. The U.S. state is quite incompetent. > and underestimating how hard it is to solve problems like these "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" Have you thought of blocking countries that permit malicious activity to cross international borders? Have you thought of blocking their IP addresses? Or is that international money just too good to let a "little bit" of malicious activity befall upon your fellow citizens?
  - gruez 2y ago
    >Companies that own dating apps. And they're lobbying against which regulations that would stop them? >Have you thought of blocking countries that permit malicious activity to cross international borders? Have you thought of blocking their IP addresses? The financial system is far more centralized than the internet and at least theoretically has KYC, but US sanctions against enemy states, terrorist groups, and drug gangs are as airtight as a sieve. What makes you so sure that IP blocking countries will have any effect, when anyone can buy a no-log VPN for $5/month?
    - inetknght 2y ago
      The grandparent claimed: > I think that is mostly because the perpetrators are often in a different country than victims. So, your comment here is moving the goalpost: > What makes you so sure that IP blocking countries will have any effect, when anyone can buy a no-log VPN for $5/month? If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in foreign countries, then see previous comment about blocking foreign countries. Block foreign countries at the interconnect until they enact and enforce laws which address the malicious activity. If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in your own country then you need only convince your law enforcement to enforce existing computer crime laws. Renting a server for $5/mo requires payment and payment provides a name & address to prosecute. All you need is to demonstrate that the malicious activity originated from the rented IP address and during the rental period.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >So, your comment here is moving the goalpost: There's no point in implementing measures that would be trivially bypassed but cause great economic and societal harm in the process (ie. creating some sort of KYC regime for the internet, or causing millions to be cut off from the internet). China, arguably one of the most draconian states out there, and the home of pig butchering scams can barely keep a lid on it. Countries like the US that emphasize civil liberties and free trade don't stand a chance. >If it's malicious activity behind VPNs in your own country then you need only convince your law enforcement to enforce existing computer crime laws. Renting a server for $5/mo requires payment and payment provides a name & address to prosecute. You can pay for no-log VPNs using crypto or anonymous gift cards. Apple, Google, and others even have 2-hop VPNs that theoretically make it impossible for the provider to log connections even if they wanted to. Not to mention, there are many countries, including the US where you can get prepaid SIMs without presenting any sort of ID and pay with cash. Even if you were some how able to enforce an airtight KYC regime for the internet (doubtful, given how well that works for the financial system), you still have to contend with compromised routers/IOT devices and shady apps that act as proxies for bad guys.