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I assume that the paragraph called «after hitler» is more appropriately called «during hitler» or similar. Do you know what the current path is on Germany? (I

by elygre 2y ago

I assume that the paragraph called «after hitler» is more appropriately called «during hitler» or similar. Do you know what the current path is on Germany? (I don’t, honest question!) (Edited typo)

Tomte 2y ago
„Ich schwöre, der Bundesrepublik Deutschland treu zu dienen und das Recht und die Freiheit des deutschen Volkes tapfer zu verteidigen, so wahr mir Gott helfe.“ I swear to serve the Federal Republic of Germany faithfully and to bravely defend the rights and freedom of the German people, so help me God.”
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  No mention of 'obey' in the German one.
  - Tomte 2y ago
    No, that part is in the law about the armed forces. And I remember distinctly from my compulsory service that we got extensive lectures about the legality of orders and when to disregard them (and report further up the chain of command), with examples.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> I assume that the paragraph called «after hitler» is more appropriately called «during hitler» or similar. What? Why would they change it? ;D On a more serious note, swearing allegiance to someone who's not alive isn't really much of an issue; it's basically the same thing as the US oath to "the Constitution".
DicIfTEx 2y ago
I shared a book in another comment[0] which contains an entire chapter[1] on the topic of (dis)obedience in the German Bundeswehr, which has a more permissive approach to individual objection than many comparable armies. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43087041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43087041 [1]: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781315547336-12/conscience-lieu-obedience-cases-selective-conscientious-objection-german-bundeswehr-j%C3%BCrgen-rose https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97813155... (available on Google Scholar at https://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:H0ZxVDtHhQ8J:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&scioq=conscience+in+lieu+of+obedience https://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:H0ZxVD...)

by elygre 2y ago

Tomte 2y ago

„Ich schwöre, der Bundesrepublik Deutschland treu zu dienen und das Recht und die Freiheit des deutschen Volkes tapfer zu verteidigen, so wahr mir Gott helfe.“ I swear to serve the Federal Republic of Germany faithfully and to bravely defend the rights and freedom of the German people, so help me God.”

ninalanyon 2y ago
No mention of 'obey' in the German one.
- Tomte 2y ago
  No, that part is in the law about the armed forces. And I remember distinctly from my compulsory service that we got extensive lectures about the legality of orders and when to disregard them (and report further up the chain of command), with examples.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> I assume that the paragraph called «after hitler» is more appropriately called «during hitler» or similar. What? Why would they change it? ;D On a more serious note, swearing allegiance to someone who's not alive isn't really much of an issue; it's basically the same thing as the US oath to "the Constitution".

DicIfTEx 2y ago

I shared a book in another comment[0] which contains an entire chapter[1] on the topic of (dis)obedience in the German Bundeswehr, which has a more permissive approach to individual objection than many comparable armies. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43087041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43087041 [1]: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781315547336-12/conscience-lieu-obedience-cases-selective-conscientious-objection-german-bundeswehr-j%C3%BCrgen-rose https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/97813155... (available on Google Scholar at https://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:H0ZxVDtHhQ8J:scholar.google.com/&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&scioq=conscience+in+lieu+of+obedience https://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:H0ZxVD...)