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I'm not even really seeing the short term gains here. It seems like despite making grandiose claims, the administration and the "broligarchs" are relying on che

by advael 2y ago

I'm not even really seeing the short term gains here. It seems like despite making grandiose claims, the administration and the "broligarchs" are relying on cheap political wins ("owning the libs/woke") to placate their base in place of even pretending to accomplish anything that helps their constituents. This honestly surprised me. I'm not a fan of the MAGA set but I genuinely expected there to be some upsides here and not just an immediate private equity style looting frenzy

icoder 2y ago
I read that as a preemptive counter against any argument involving upsides; even if they are there (possibly only for or in the eyes of some of the beholders), the division and abuse of power are a(n immediate) problem (and that's putting it lightly).
pjc50 2y ago
The short term gains are things like $TRUMP bringing in a huge amount of money for insiders. The long term gains are things like firing the FEC, enabling erosion of voter rights. The supporters aren't really in this for the money, they're in it for the blood. I don't know if that will change once some crisis forces gas prices up.
moconnor 2y ago
You don't believe their stated assertions that e.g. they are genuinely disturbed by the size of public borrowing and the growing debt and are taking what they see as desperate measures?
- pjc50 2y ago
  All previous R governments have talked the same and increased the debt. I expect this one to do the same, and expand the deficit to make big tax cuts. The Liz Truss budget.
  - nathanaldensr 2y ago
    And all previous D governments, no? The point is that Congress is the one responsible for indebting the US, and it's both parties that are responsible. The Executive can only do so much to correct this, and even if Musk's claim of saving $2T turns out to be true, that still isn't even nearly enough to stem the tide of spending that has bankrupted the US.
    - advael 2y ago
      This whole framing is nonsense. The US is the reserve currency of the world, and its influence in both economic and soft power has had massive ROI for the entire economy for decades. There is no other government that plays this role in the global economy, and it's a ridiculously advantageous one. The fact that a balance sheet shows the sum of the investments to achieve and maintain that as a deficit is not a reason to freak out, this is a drastic misunderstanding of how nation-scale economics work that comes from people who are only familiar with household and business budgets But if we were concerned about the budget, contractors are drastically more expensive than federal agencies and are much more dubious in their value proposition for the state or the public. It's just that the people involved made their fortunes on cushy government contracts and corporate welfare, so they won't go after it. The whole "fiscal conservatism" concept has always been a massive grift and this is the most blatant and obvious it's ever been And you're absolutely right in saying that the Democrats are on the same grift, as their strategy has shifted to triangulation in the last 40 years, though the economic shocks they tend to produce over this insanity are generally smaller. The fact is, neoliberal economics has failed to produce widespread domestic prosperity, was likely an attempt to loot modern economies for an oligarch class from the beginning, and people keep accepting doubling down on these policies because they've been systematically misinformed about economic cause and effect through trite little analogies
      - BrenBarn 2y ago
        What measures do you suggest to take things in a different direction?
- advael 2y ago
  Not even remotely. Same line since at least Reagan, never been honest, never will be. It doesn't even make sense. It's relying on laypeople not understanding the economics at play. Hell, going after stuff like the CFPB that are deeply revenue-positive and not things like DoD contractors makes this claim ridiculous on its face Also, even if it was believable, that's not an upside, it's a claim of ideological justification. An upside needs to be an action they've actually done that has actual tangible benefits
- archagon 2y ago
  Nope, it’s a lie: https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/02/12/repub/u-s-house-gop-releases-budget-that-raises-debt-limit-by-4-trillion-extends-tax-cuts/ https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/02/12/repub/u-s-house-gop-...

by advael 2y ago

icoder 2y ago

I read that as a preemptive counter against any argument involving upsides; even if they are there (possibly only for or in the eyes of some of the beholders), the division and abuse of power are a(n immediate) problem (and that's putting it lightly).

pjc50 2y ago

The short term gains are things like $TRUMP bringing in a huge amount of money for insiders. The long term gains are things like firing the FEC, enabling erosion of voter rights. The supporters aren't really in this for the money, they're in it for the blood. I don't know if that will change once some crisis forces gas prices up.

moconnor 2y ago

You don't believe their stated assertions that e.g. they are genuinely disturbed by the size of public borrowing and the growing debt and are taking what they see as desperate measures?

pjc50 2y ago
All previous R governments have talked the same and increased the debt. I expect this one to do the same, and expand the deficit to make big tax cuts. The Liz Truss budget.
- nathanaldensr 2y ago
  And all previous D governments, no? The point is that Congress is the one responsible for indebting the US, and it's both parties that are responsible. The Executive can only do so much to correct this, and even if Musk's claim of saving $2T turns out to be true, that still isn't even nearly enough to stem the tide of spending that has bankrupted the US.
  - advael 2y ago
    This whole framing is nonsense. The US is the reserve currency of the world, and its influence in both economic and soft power has had massive ROI for the entire economy for decades. There is no other government that plays this role in the global economy, and it's a ridiculously advantageous one. The fact that a balance sheet shows the sum of the investments to achieve and maintain that as a deficit is not a reason to freak out, this is a drastic misunderstanding of how nation-scale economics work that comes from people who are only familiar with household and business budgets But if we were concerned about the budget, contractors are drastically more expensive than federal agencies and are much more dubious in their value proposition for the state or the public. It's just that the people involved made their fortunes on cushy government contracts and corporate welfare, so they won't go after it. The whole "fiscal conservatism" concept has always been a massive grift and this is the most blatant and obvious it's ever been And you're absolutely right in saying that the Democrats are on the same grift, as their strategy has shifted to triangulation in the last 40 years, though the economic shocks they tend to produce over this insanity are generally smaller. The fact is, neoliberal economics has failed to produce widespread domestic prosperity, was likely an attempt to loot modern economies for an oligarch class from the beginning, and people keep accepting doubling down on these policies because they've been systematically misinformed about economic cause and effect through trite little analogies
    - BrenBarn 2y ago
      What measures do you suggest to take things in a different direction?
advael 2y ago
Not even remotely. Same line since at least Reagan, never been honest, never will be. It doesn't even make sense. It's relying on laypeople not understanding the economics at play. Hell, going after stuff like the CFPB that are deeply revenue-positive and not things like DoD contractors makes this claim ridiculous on its face Also, even if it was believable, that's not an upside, it's a claim of ideological justification. An upside needs to be an action they've actually done that has actual tangible benefits
archagon 2y ago
Nope, it’s a lie: https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/02/12/repub/u-s-house-gop-releases-budget-that-raises-debt-limit-by-4-trillion-extends-tax-cuts/ https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/02/12/repub/u-s-house-gop-...