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Kiplimo is managed by Rosa, who was involved in some of the most famous doping cases in the sport [1] [2]. This new record is a bit suspicious (a relatively new

Kiplimo is managed by Rosa, who was involved in some of the most famous doping cases in the sport [1] [2]. This new record is a bit suspicious (a relatively new record broken by 49s) and WADA has stopped caring about doping... This is the 5th running record broken in a week (2x 1 mile, 3k, 5k, and now HM), the other ones being indoor times that match the current outdoor records. I wonder if they will start banning certain shoe technologies during races now, but of course they cannot ban athletes from using illegal shoes during training. [1] https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2015/04/13/ak-suspends-rosa-volare-for-six-months/ https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2015/04/13/ak-suspends-ro... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/sports/italian-agent-charged-in-kenya-over-alleged-doping-idUSKCN0ZU1MN/ https://www.reuters.com/article/sports/italian-agent-charged...

hiq 2y ago
> they will start banning certain shoe technologies during races now I think that's already the case, isn't it? For instance: https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/vienna-marathon-winner-disqualified-after-shoes-soles-violate-rules-2021-09-12/ https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/vienna-marathon-win... > they cannot ban athletes from using illegal shoes during training. I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? I think one reason for anti-doping regulation is health, you don't want athletes breaking a world record one day and die the next. And doping during training definitely gets you some advantage, sometimes even years after, so the competition is no longer fair. But I don't see the harm with equipment such as shoes, if used only during training.
- jebarker 2y ago
  > I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? I don't know for sure but if the shoes relieve stress on some parts of the body, e.g. leg joints or muscles, you can get more time training other parts at higher intensity with less injury risk?
  - mjrpes 2y ago
    You would ban a shoe simply because it reduces the chance of injury? That's like, the sole reason shoes exist.
    - jebarker 2y ago
      Sorry, I misunderstood the parent. I thought they were questioning why someone would wear these shoes for training.
- blah2244 2y ago
  The rule since 2020 (when supershoes really started taking over) has been 40mm stack height/1 carbon plate: https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/modified-rules-shoes https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/modified-rules... As for training, that's a pretty contentious topic in the running community right now -- some recent research concluded that training in supershoes might actually impair race performance: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/supershoe-research-acsm-conference-2023 https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/su...
- bramhaag 2y ago
  > I think that's already the case, isn't it? afaik, only the stack height is regulated. Specific technologies like foam, carbon plates etc. are not. > I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? Personally I'd love to see more shoe development, but I image that if you feel that using supershoes during races is cheating, you'd feel the same about using them while training.
  - hyperpape 2y ago
    It's not obvious to me why you'd ban those shoes during training. You ban doping during training because it gives an advantage at race time. I don't see the analogous reasoning for shoes.
    - 90ne1 2y ago
      I'm not sure on the depth of scientific evidence on the topic, but the prevailing understanding in the serious running conversation is that supershoes reduce recovery burden during training. This means you can increase training volume without imploding, which is an advantage at race time.

hiq 2y ago

> they will start banning certain shoe technologies during races now I think that's already the case, isn't it? For instance: https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/vienna-marathon-winner-disqualified-after-shoes-soles-violate-rules-2021-09-12/ https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/vienna-marathon-win... > they cannot ban athletes from using illegal shoes during training. I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? I think one reason for anti-doping regulation is health, you don't want athletes breaking a world record one day and die the next. And doping during training definitely gets you some advantage, sometimes even years after, so the competition is no longer fair. But I don't see the harm with equipment such as shoes, if used only during training.

jebarker 2y ago
> I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? I don't know for sure but if the shoes relieve stress on some parts of the body, e.g. leg joints or muscles, you can get more time training other parts at higher intensity with less injury risk?
- mjrpes 2y ago
  You would ban a shoe simply because it reduces the chance of injury? That's like, the sole reason shoes exist.
  - jebarker 2y ago
    Sorry, I misunderstood the parent. I thought they were questioning why someone would wear these shoes for training.
blah2244 2y ago
The rule since 2020 (when supershoes really started taking over) has been 40mm stack height/1 carbon plate: https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/modified-rules-shoes https://worldathletics.org/news/press-release/modified-rules... As for training, that's a pretty contentious topic in the running community right now -- some recent research concluded that training in supershoes might actually impair race performance: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/supershoe-research-acsm-conference-2023 https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/su...
bramhaag 2y ago
> I think that's already the case, isn't it? afaik, only the stack height is regulated. Specific technologies like foam, carbon plates etc. are not. > I don't understand why you would in the first place, what would be the reasoning here? Personally I'd love to see more shoe development, but I image that if you feel that using supershoes during races is cheating, you'd feel the same about using them while training.
- hyperpape 2y ago
  It's not obvious to me why you'd ban those shoes during training. You ban doping during training because it gives an advantage at race time. I don't see the analogous reasoning for shoes.
  - 90ne1 2y ago
    I'm not sure on the depth of scientific evidence on the topic, but the prevailing understanding in the serious running conversation is that supershoes reduce recovery burden during training. This means you can increase training volume without imploding, which is an advantage at race time.