4 ms·

Trivializing other people's concerns and worries is not the best way to get their help - even when priorities are pretty clear. It is very similar to trivializi

Trivializing other people's concerns and worries is not the best way to get their help - even when priorities are pretty clear. It is very similar to trivializing "oh you shouldn't be an addict in the first place" We are dealing with humans here, and all of them, including the homeless and people complaining about views, make up our society.

bloomingkales 2y ago
Again, I said a specific sentence, and I think it's the most important sentence to me. You have to be lucky to be witness to poverty, it provides incredible perspective. I undermine other's concerns about the unsightly view because I believe their attitude is immoral, and I have no issue drawing a red line there.
- ty6853 2y ago
  Having been homeless a couple times the way out is rather simple in most cases if you're sane and sober. A days day labor is enough for food, propane, and bus passes for a week. Anything beyond that us enough to buy a shower at a truck stop and get cleaned up for an interview at a warehouse. You can trivially survive outside with a weeks day labor wages worth of REI gear on the coasts and most the lower 49 ( of course a junky would hawk this as soon as they are dope sick ) On both occasions I used this equation homeless -> day labor for Airbnb to clean up for warehouse/factory interview -> work in factory until deposit on apartment earned to get out. Most the people actually on the street are nuts or drugged out. People like me would clean construction site, then take a bus to edge of town and climb a flat roof and sleep where no one sees us. What you're witnessing isn't so much poverty but insanity.
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      You're both talking past each other in a high-handed way that speaks perfectly to why this is a problem that's not only unsolved, but toxic to try and solve.
      - ty6853 2y ago
        I'm not even sure it's a problem so much as a symptom. If you see someone with shortness of breath, normally offering some oxygen might help them. Unless of course they have COPD, in which case that may very well kill them.
      - bloomingkales 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I can't even find work with experience and a clean record. I can't imagine how bad it'd be to find minimum wage work while not having an address to full a form out with. If it's been a whine for you it's gotten so much worse. >Most the people actually on the street are nuts or drugged out The most obvious, in your face example are the crazy ones. For basic human survival we remember those the most. But I bet most homeless people are just a person on the streets getting by. Not even the ones begging for change. It's a lot harder to get by in CA though.
    - ty6853 2y ago
      If nothing else works I've also fallen back on commercial fishing in the Bering Sea near AK (free food and board included), and hitch hiking to north Dakota to work on the oil rush. I don't know if they still hire but usually they'll hire anyone and maybe give you free board. The address you out down generally isn't checked, I'll leave it at that. Putting professional work experience is a no no for minimum wage job. Word your experience to make it sound much more laborious and uneducated.
- throwaway7783 2y ago
  Yes, you can draw a line wherever your moral compass tells you to. My point was not about morality. It is just that regardless of what you think of morals as an individual, these people are all still part of the same society, and parts of both problems and solutions. And in many parts of the world you have to be lucky not to see/experience poverty from up close.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
tdeck 2y ago
The thing is that being homeless is a constant state of emergency for homeless people and we don't talk about it like that. Imagine if someone spent their time complaining about how pulling over for an ambulance or firetruck made them late to an important life event, so we should stop doing that. I don't think most of us would say "hey wait a minute, this person has a genuine concern. Let's not trivialize it".
- presentation 2y ago
  I disagree with the idea that we should accept that homelessness and crippling drug addiction are socially acceptable and normal aspects of society just because the people going through them are suffering more than you are. I think it’s totally reasonable to express that the beach feeling dangerous and disgusting is in fact awful and that you do not like the state of things, and I do not want to live in a society where you can’t state opinions like this straightforwardly (which is why I left SF).
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    Can I ask what you do on a regular basis to help homeless people? Was moving away your only actionable item? I don’t go out of my way to help the homeless either, but I also don’t go out of my way expressing how disgusted I am with them, or rally behind politics that are net bad for everyone just because I really agree that SF is really not to my liking. You moving away was the adult thing to do. You adding to the carrion call of maga voices is reprehensible. Enjoy your beaches.
    - presentation 2y ago
      You’re making a lot of assumptions. I am a liberal who believed at some point in my 20s when I lived there that what we needed to fix society’s problems is just to… empathize more. Unfortunately we see how far that gets, as there’s no shortage of “caring” in SF. I did not vote for Trump, and in fact I was active in SF local politics campaigning for politicians whose platforms I believed would make a real dent in the homelessness problem. Which you’re evidently not interested in doing besides admonishing people for not saying the politically correct thing. Unfortunately, San Franciscan home owners, when push comes to shove, want a pretty view, the image of a SF frozen how it was when they were young hippies, and inflated housing costs that they profit from, over actually solving any of these problems. Since then I’ve moved somewhere that prioritizes actually doing things that actually work, and not just feeling bad for people who are downtrodden. Enjoy your abject human misery and disgusting public spaces, I hope you feeling miserable somehow fixes the issue.
nullc 2y ago
Thank you. I think what you're saying is particularly true on this subject-- the people with skeptical or negative remarks are likely people who they or their families have personally suffered harm. When someone denies your own experience it's natural to write them off if not to actively oppose their position. Widely contentious issues are usually contentious precisely because the different perspectives are all simultaneously valid.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nullc 2y ago
    Thanks for being frank. The reason it's a popular target is because it's such an embarrassment, denying it or diminishing it makes it more powerful as a war drum. It makes it more excusable for the drummers to exaggerate it, to the extent that the audience feels the alternative view is just flat out wrong. When there legitimately is no issue then it is what it is, when there is an issue and we can respond "we know, we're working on it, here are the difficulties we face" that's also understandable. But when a political opponent is committed to outright denying something that many people can see for themselves, that's manna from heaven. I think if you default to seeing things in terms of "alignment" it means that every time your opponent has a point, even a weak one, it harms all the positions that you've bundled together because it's a wedge for someone to go "well team yellow clearly has a point on X while team green is gaslighting, so ...". Especially when we generalize on one set of opinions to conclude the person we're talking to is 'the other team' and are according evil unpersons devoid of moral value. Every false positive on that judgement call sends another person in to the arms of people who don't jump to conclusions on them. To depower a political faction we must depower political factionalism -- because factions are primarily created by their opponents.
    - bloomingkales 2y ago
      [dead]
johnnyanmac 2y ago
To be frank, they never wanted to help to begin with. Why would I care about coddling their concerns if they are being selfish all this time? Sometimes, awareness is just as much about identifying who to not bother with as it is about empowering future allies.
- throwaway7783 2y ago
  Where did the $640B+ that was spent to help the homeless came from? Thin air?

bloomingkales 2y ago

Again, I said a specific sentence, and I think it's the most important sentence to me. You have to be lucky to be witness to poverty, it provides incredible perspective. I undermine other's concerns about the unsightly view because I believe their attitude is immoral, and I have no issue drawing a red line there.

ty6853 2y ago
Having been homeless a couple times the way out is rather simple in most cases if you're sane and sober. A days day labor is enough for food, propane, and bus passes for a week. Anything beyond that us enough to buy a shower at a truck stop and get cleaned up for an interview at a warehouse. You can trivially survive outside with a weeks day labor wages worth of REI gear on the coasts and most the lower 49 ( of course a junky would hawk this as soon as they are dope sick ) On both occasions I used this equation homeless -> day labor for Airbnb to clean up for warehouse/factory interview -> work in factory until deposit on apartment earned to get out. Most the people actually on the street are nuts or drugged out. People like me would clean construction site, then take a bus to edge of town and climb a flat roof and sleep where no one sees us. What you're witnessing isn't so much poverty but insanity.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    You're both talking past each other in a high-handed way that speaks perfectly to why this is a problem that's not only unsolved, but toxic to try and solve.
    - ty6853 2y ago
      I'm not even sure it's a problem so much as a symptom. If you see someone with shortness of breath, normally offering some oxygen might help them. Unless of course they have COPD, in which case that may very well kill them.
    - bloomingkales 2y ago
      [flagged]
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  I can't even find work with experience and a clean record. I can't imagine how bad it'd be to find minimum wage work while not having an address to full a form out with. If it's been a whine for you it's gotten so much worse. >Most the people actually on the street are nuts or drugged out The most obvious, in your face example are the crazy ones. For basic human survival we remember those the most. But I bet most homeless people are just a person on the streets getting by. Not even the ones begging for change. It's a lot harder to get by in CA though.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    If nothing else works I've also fallen back on commercial fishing in the Bering Sea near AK (free food and board included), and hitch hiking to north Dakota to work on the oil rush. I don't know if they still hire but usually they'll hire anyone and maybe give you free board. The address you out down generally isn't checked, I'll leave it at that. Putting professional work experience is a no no for minimum wage job. Word your experience to make it sound much more laborious and uneducated.
throwaway7783 2y ago
Yes, you can draw a line wherever your moral compass tells you to. My point was not about morality. It is just that regardless of what you think of morals as an individual, these people are all still part of the same society, and parts of both problems and solutions. And in many parts of the world you have to be lucky not to see/experience poverty from up close.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

tdeck 2y ago

The thing is that being homeless is a constant state of emergency for homeless people and we don't talk about it like that. Imagine if someone spent their time complaining about how pulling over for an ambulance or firetruck made them late to an important life event, so we should stop doing that. I don't think most of us would say "hey wait a minute, this person has a genuine concern. Let's not trivialize it".

presentation 2y ago
I disagree with the idea that we should accept that homelessness and crippling drug addiction are socially acceptable and normal aspects of society just because the people going through them are suffering more than you are. I think it’s totally reasonable to express that the beach feeling dangerous and disgusting is in fact awful and that you do not like the state of things, and I do not want to live in a society where you can’t state opinions like this straightforwardly (which is why I left SF).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  Can I ask what you do on a regular basis to help homeless people? Was moving away your only actionable item? I don’t go out of my way to help the homeless either, but I also don’t go out of my way expressing how disgusted I am with them, or rally behind politics that are net bad for everyone just because I really agree that SF is really not to my liking. You moving away was the adult thing to do. You adding to the carrion call of maga voices is reprehensible. Enjoy your beaches.
  - presentation 2y ago
    You’re making a lot of assumptions. I am a liberal who believed at some point in my 20s when I lived there that what we needed to fix society’s problems is just to… empathize more. Unfortunately we see how far that gets, as there’s no shortage of “caring” in SF. I did not vote for Trump, and in fact I was active in SF local politics campaigning for politicians whose platforms I believed would make a real dent in the homelessness problem. Which you’re evidently not interested in doing besides admonishing people for not saying the politically correct thing. Unfortunately, San Franciscan home owners, when push comes to shove, want a pretty view, the image of a SF frozen how it was when they were young hippies, and inflated housing costs that they profit from, over actually solving any of these problems. Since then I’ve moved somewhere that prioritizes actually doing things that actually work, and not just feeling bad for people who are downtrodden. Enjoy your abject human misery and disgusting public spaces, I hope you feeling miserable somehow fixes the issue.

nullc 2y ago

Thank you. I think what you're saying is particularly true on this subject-- the people with skeptical or negative remarks are likely people who they or their families have personally suffered harm. When someone denies your own experience it's natural to write them off if not to actively oppose their position. Widely contentious issues are usually contentious precisely because the different perspectives are all simultaneously valid.

bloomingkales 2y ago
[flagged]
- nullc 2y ago
  Thanks for being frank. The reason it's a popular target is because it's such an embarrassment, denying it or diminishing it makes it more powerful as a war drum. It makes it more excusable for the drummers to exaggerate it, to the extent that the audience feels the alternative view is just flat out wrong. When there legitimately is no issue then it is what it is, when there is an issue and we can respond "we know, we're working on it, here are the difficulties we face" that's also understandable. But when a political opponent is committed to outright denying something that many people can see for themselves, that's manna from heaven. I think if you default to seeing things in terms of "alignment" it means that every time your opponent has a point, even a weak one, it harms all the positions that you've bundled together because it's a wedge for someone to go "well team yellow clearly has a point on X while team green is gaslighting, so ...". Especially when we generalize on one set of opinions to conclude the person we're talking to is 'the other team' and are according evil unpersons devoid of moral value. Every false positive on that judgement call sends another person in to the arms of people who don't jump to conclusions on them. To depower a political faction we must depower political factionalism -- because factions are primarily created by their opponents.
  - bloomingkales 2y ago
    [dead]

johnnyanmac 2y ago

To be frank, they never wanted to help to begin with. Why would I care about coddling their concerns if they are being selfish all this time? Sometimes, awareness is just as much about identifying who to not bother with as it is about empowering future allies.

throwaway7783 2y ago
Where did the $640B+ that was spent to help the homeless came from? Thin air?