5 ms·

Where have you heard the Trump admin wants Israel to attack Iran? I haven't seen that news. And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation,

Where have you heard the Trump admin wants Israel to attack Iran? I haven't seen that news. And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation, even if giving Russia what they want is the outcome.

Loggias 2y ago
[dead]
esseph 2y ago
https://www.livemint.com/news/israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-says-israel-will-finish-the-job-against-iran-with-us-support-11739721145984.html https://www.livemint.com/news/israeli-prime-minister-benjami... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-says-israel-working-full-coordination-with-trump-gaza-2025-02-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-says-isr... https://archive.ph/M2mhi https://archive.ph/M2mhi Adding more context: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/nati...
- fastball 2y ago
  Not letting Iran get nukes sounds like a great way to avoid further escalation in the region.
  - esseph 2y ago
    I love it when people justify escalation for the purposes of deescalation. I spent too much time in sandy areas with a rifle.
    - fastball 2y ago
      None of what I read sounded like escalation. The US' stance has long been that they don't want Iran to have access to nukes.
      - esseph 2y ago
        Ok!
mcphage 2y ago
> And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation, even if giving Russia what they want is the outcome. That’s what they said about the Sudentenland, too.
- fastball 2y ago
  Indeed, sometimes de-escalation is followed by further escalation. By your implied metric, every ceasefire that wasn't permanent was a failure. Sudentenland is the exception that makes the rule. Throughout history, most peace agreements have not been immediately violated by the "winning" side.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > most peace agreements have not been immediately violated by the "winning" side. Most peace agreements are signed when the war is over and one side has given up. Most peace agreements aren’t attempts at appeasement.
    - fastball 2y ago
      And this war won't end either, if neither side gives in.
      - mcphage 2y ago
        That’s the thing about war—if it goes on long enough, it eventually ends, because one side is unable to continue it. And if it’s the aggressor, then that stops them from continuing their aggression.
computerthings 2y ago
> And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation, even if giving Russia what they want is the outcome. It's siding with the aggressor, and makes the soil more fertile for more such aggression. So if I try to steal your baby, and you catch me and we fight, and it gets really loud and people are inconvenienced and all that, so someone steps in and says "stop fighting, both go on your way", and I leave with your baby, that's de-escalation? Not even in your dreams. You can only stoop to this from the ivory tower of not being affected either way, or thinking you won't be. You can only call this de-escalation when you are not the victim. You wouldn't do it otherwise, ever.

Loggias 2y ago

[dead]

esseph 2y ago

https://www.livemint.com/news/israeli-prime-minister-benjamin-netanyahu-says-israel-will-finish-the-job-against-iran-with-us-support-11739721145984.html https://www.livemint.com/news/israeli-prime-minister-benjami... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-says-israel-working-full-coordination-with-trump-gaza-2025-02-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-says-isr... https://archive.ph/M2mhi https://archive.ph/M2mhi Adding more context: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/national-security-presidential-memorandum-nspm-2/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/nati...

fastball 2y ago
Not letting Iran get nukes sounds like a great way to avoid further escalation in the region.
- esseph 2y ago
  I love it when people justify escalation for the purposes of deescalation. I spent too much time in sandy areas with a rifle.
  - fastball 2y ago
    None of what I read sounded like escalation. The US' stance has long been that they don't want Iran to have access to nukes.
    - esseph 2y ago
      Ok!

mcphage 2y ago

> And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation, even if giving Russia what they want is the outcome. That’s what they said about the Sudentenland, too.

fastball 2y ago
Indeed, sometimes de-escalation is followed by further escalation. By your implied metric, every ceasefire that wasn't permanent was a failure. Sudentenland is the exception that makes the rule. Throughout history, most peace agreements have not been immediately violated by the "winning" side.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > most peace agreements have not been immediately violated by the "winning" side. Most peace agreements are signed when the war is over and one side has given up. Most peace agreements aren’t attempts at appeasement.
  - fastball 2y ago
    And this war won't end either, if neither side gives in.
    - mcphage 2y ago
      That’s the thing about war—if it goes on long enough, it eventually ends, because one side is unable to continue it. And if it’s the aggressor, then that stops them from continuing their aggression.

computerthings 2y ago

> And yes, ending the Russian-Ukrainian war is in fact de-escalation, even if giving Russia what they want is the outcome. It's siding with the aggressor, and makes the soil more fertile for more such aggression. So if I try to steal your baby, and you catch me and we fight, and it gets really loud and people are inconvenienced and all that, so someone steps in and says "stop fighting, both go on your way", and I leave with your baby, that's de-escalation? Not even in your dreams. You can only stoop to this from the ivory tower of not being affected either way, or thinking you won't be. You can only call this de-escalation when you are not the victim. You wouldn't do it otherwise, ever.