4 ms·

The hope is that UBI would prevent him and people like him from falling into homelessness in the first place.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
He would have still become homeless with UBI. The home he lived in was owned by his grandfather and was sold when he passed away, leaving him with no home at 18 when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place
- gs17 2y ago
  >when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place Why do you think that's a fault of UBI, rather than the fault of your hypothetical UBI being insufficient? AFAIK any actual implementation of UBI would be intended to be feasible to have housing on, even if it's not very good housing. With UBI, there's a level of income that people are guaranteed to have without needing any proof, that's the whole concept!
rpcope1 2y ago
The whole UBI thing has always seemed absurdly naive. What do you think a junky is going to do with that money? That's a rhetorical question. I really seriously doubt having a few extra dollars in the first place is going to either slow mental illness or people picking up drugs, and frankly having a bunch of people out of work with money, for the vast majority of people in my experience, only leads to them picking up bad things like drugs in the first place. One of the most myopic views I read on sites like this, that are obviously heavily biased in their readership, is that if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously. What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI, is we're going to bleed a bunch more money that immediately gets vaporized (or at least put in the pockets of pushers and alcohol distributors), and then we still will have the same problems for at least 50% of the people that needed the focused benefits like SNAP or Medicaid anyways. We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there.
- lukerramsden 2y ago
  > We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there. Ironic, isn’t it? Right back to where we started. Portugal has tried the “empathy” approach too and is now going through the slow and long process of rolling it back
- BryantD 2y ago
  We've been "foolish" enough to try UBI. Studies show that it doesn't tend to increase spend on alcohol or tobacco.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >What do you think a junky is going to do with that money? Go to a mental institute if we tie the UBI to some basic factors. UBI isn't just some altruistic factor that gives money to everyone without condition. They at least want to make sure you're a citizen and not going to fund the destruction of society with it. >if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously. Talking about non-homeless, it has shown to increase recreation. Not necessarily businesses, but it's nice having time to breathe when you aren't spending half your like just to make sure you can pay rent. >What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI, You can speculate or you can actually read studies done. Domestically and worldwide.
  - BryantD 2y ago
    https://basicincome.stanford.edu/research/ubi-visualization/ https://basicincome.stanford.edu/research/ubi-visualization/ is a pretty good place to start on reading studies.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

He would have still become homeless with UBI. The home he lived in was owned by his grandfather and was sold when he passed away, leaving him with no home at 18 when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place

gs17 2y ago
>when he could not possibly earn enough to rent or prove to anyone renting that he had enough stability and income to be given a place Why do you think that's a fault of UBI, rather than the fault of your hypothetical UBI being insufficient? AFAIK any actual implementation of UBI would be intended to be feasible to have housing on, even if it's not very good housing. With UBI, there's a level of income that people are guaranteed to have without needing any proof, that's the whole concept!

rpcope1 2y ago

The whole UBI thing has always seemed absurdly naive. What do you think a junky is going to do with that money? That's a rhetorical question. I really seriously doubt having a few extra dollars in the first place is going to either slow mental illness or people picking up drugs, and frankly having a bunch of people out of work with money, for the vast majority of people in my experience, only leads to them picking up bad things like drugs in the first place. One of the most myopic views I read on sites like this, that are obviously heavily biased in their readership, is that if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously. What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI, is we're going to bleed a bunch more money that immediately gets vaporized (or at least put in the pockets of pushers and alcohol distributors), and then we still will have the same problems for at least 50% of the people that needed the focused benefits like SNAP or Medicaid anyways. We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there.

lukerramsden 2y ago
> We'd be much better served getting very medieval on anyone and everyone selling drugs, and then going from there. Ironic, isn’t it? Right back to where we started. Portugal has tried the “empathy” approach too and is now going through the slow and long process of rolling it back
BryantD 2y ago
We've been "foolish" enough to try UBI. Studies show that it doesn't tend to increase spend on alcohol or tobacco.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
>What do you think a junky is going to do with that money? Go to a mental institute if we tie the UBI to some basic factors. UBI isn't just some altruistic factor that gives money to everyone without condition. They at least want to make sure you're a citizen and not going to fund the destruction of society with it. >if we give people some amount of money for nothing, they'll magically pick up art and entrepreneurship and other productive outlets spontaneously. Talking about non-homeless, it has shown to increase recreation. Not necessarily businesses, but it's nice having time to breathe when you aren't spending half your like just to make sure you can pay rent. >What's going to happen, if we're foolish enough to try UBI, You can speculate or you can actually read studies done. Domestically and worldwide.
- BryantD 2y ago
  https://basicincome.stanford.edu/research/ubi-visualization/ https://basicincome.stanford.edu/research/ubi-visualization/ is a pretty good place to start on reading studies.