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Crypto adherents seem to have given up on any other narrative this time yeah. Scammers gonna scam. Suckers gonna lose (including the suckers who fancy themsel

Crypto adherents seem to have given up on any other narrative this time yeah. Scammers gonna scam. Suckers gonna lose (including the suckers who fancy themselves as scammers but don’t realise it’s a rigged game).

EGreg 2y ago
I am a “crypto adherent” who champions decentralized networks and byzantine-fault-tolerant protocols, and I have been using strongly pushing for the original narrative of trustless smart contracts cutting out the middleman. I think there are many use cases for it. Before you knock it, look at the following: https://intercoin.app/investors.pdf https://intercoin.app/investors.pdf https://intercoin.app/currencies.pdf https://intercoin.app/currencies.pdf Or if you want to see actual open source solutions, coded, see here: https://intercoin.org/applications https://intercoin.org/applications I know some people will knee-jerk downvote this. But actually look into the substance, first. TLDR: I have been speaking against “HODL” and zero-sum games just for “number go up” nonsense, and been building solutions for maximum utility.
- XMPPwocky 2y ago
  I think your pitch would be significantly stronger if the resources you linked didn't largely revolve around "What if Snoop Dogg had his own currency?" I'm not ... completely unable to be persuaded that there are use cases for cryptocurrency. But "Ashton Kutcher should have Aston Kutchercoin, and develop some sort of referral-based pyramid-shaped scheme with it for his fans" is... what is that?
  - EGreg 2y ago
    That's... 1) A way to fill unsold seats at venues, and always have sold-out events 2) A way to reward his members for spreading his message and bringing more people 3) A way to turn his audience into an army of promoters 4) A way to be independent of banks, and accept global payments 5) A way to have a global online movement that becomes bigger than Ashton Kutcher himself... having subcommunities be empowered to get together and form their own meetups, see it happen around the world, if they get large then Ashton and his crew can come and do a rock concert there It's great for political campaigns and many movements as well. We did it for Yang's 2020 campaign for example, with "Yang Gangs", that was very early days in 2020
    - miunau 2y ago
      Which one of those five have actually happened in reality, and to what extent? "The American Conservative further stated that a contingent of Yang's digital followers were only backing him for "a fresh platform for surreal and cynical humor" and that Yang had to denounce part of and distance himself from the movement, which largely stemmed from digital supporters of the Trump 2016 campaign.[85]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang_2020_presidential_campaign#%22Yang_Gang%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang_2020_presidential_...
    - habinero 2y ago
      Ok, I'll bite. I read this and my first reactions are: 1. How? 2. Reward them with what? 3. Fans are already promoters. 4. Why is this a good thing? 5. This is just describing fandom, which already exists?
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        Oh sorry, this way the creator of the underlying infrastructure can collect rent from all aforementioned re-implementations of existing services.
        EGreg 2y ago
        This is extremely vague and seems to be so on purpose in order to just have some nebulous "attack". Do you really think Web2 platforms aren't the epitome of rentseeking, by taking advantage of their role as middlemen?
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        Obviously existing middlemen are rent seekers. The question is why anyone should eat the cost of switching to a new, less proven rent seeker. To the hopeful new rent seeker, the pitch is obvious. To everyone else, the provided rationales tend to sound like a whole lot of bullshit.
        2y ago
- digdugdirk 2y ago
  Question for you - what are the most energy efficient crypto protocols that could serve as the underlying network for a distributed system? And have there been any studies that look at the total energy consumption of a system of any reasonable size using various crypto protocols?
  - EGreg 2y ago
    Well, once you move beyond proof-of-work, the energy use drops 99%. It's not about energy, it's about bottlenecks. Blockchain has bottlenecks, and if you have one blockchain for all the apps, it's going to be either inefficient or centralized. Back in 2017, I designed a system to avoid global consensus: https://intercoin.org/technology.pdf https://intercoin.org/technology.pdf If you want to see a visual presentation that explains why we need to go beyond blockchains, then check this out: https://intercoin.org/intercloud.pdf https://intercoin.org/intercloud.pdf
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
hermanubis 2y ago
In the US you can’t grant coins any ownership or benefits that might vary in value. Meme coins are the only legal crypto so that’s all you get. It’s like Obama only legalizing giant pickup trucks.
- necubi 2y ago
  Can you name a single ICO that produced something of value before the SEC cracked down on what are (obviously) unregistered security offerings?
- RC_ITR 2y ago
  The idea that “you must be regulated as a security” and “you cannot issue” are synonymous is one of the weirder parts of modern crypto.
- hristov 2y ago
  Yes you can. Of course if your crypto is a security you have to treat it as a security, you have to register it file a prospectus, etc., but it is doable.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  We had an entire saga of ICOs launch and fail to deliver value. The notion that laws are preventing a golden age of crypto prosperity doesn’t make any sense. There are numerous countries where these coins can operate and they still don’t deliver any of these claims. > It’s like Obama only legalizing giant pickup trucks. What a weird claim. I assume you’re talking about CAFE regulations, but with an extremist conservative talking point twist. This is a favorite talking point, but people conveniently ignore the fact that we have small and fuel efficient pickup trucks that people don’t buy. Honda made a FWD unibody pickup that fit many needs, but people just don’t want it. Not to mention the fact that the CAFE regulations were 2025 targets, or that we have had multiple presidents since then and different political parties have had their chance to change things. Yet blaming Obama is fun, so let’s go with that.
  - coffeebeqn 2y ago
    Has anything really changed since the ICOs? It’s just the same scams being wrapped up slightly differently but in the end 99.999% of these coins are net negative value to the world and their “investors”

EGreg 2y ago

I am a “crypto adherent” who champions decentralized networks and byzantine-fault-tolerant protocols, and I have been using strongly pushing for the original narrative of trustless smart contracts cutting out the middleman. I think there are many use cases for it. Before you knock it, look at the following: https://intercoin.app/investors.pdf https://intercoin.app/investors.pdf https://intercoin.app/currencies.pdf https://intercoin.app/currencies.pdf Or if you want to see actual open source solutions, coded, see here: https://intercoin.org/applications https://intercoin.org/applications I know some people will knee-jerk downvote this. But actually look into the substance, first. TLDR: I have been speaking against “HODL” and zero-sum games just for “number go up” nonsense, and been building solutions for maximum utility.

XMPPwocky 2y ago
I think your pitch would be significantly stronger if the resources you linked didn't largely revolve around "What if Snoop Dogg had his own currency?" I'm not ... completely unable to be persuaded that there are use cases for cryptocurrency. But "Ashton Kutcher should have Aston Kutchercoin, and develop some sort of referral-based pyramid-shaped scheme with it for his fans" is... what is that?
- EGreg 2y ago
  That's... 1) A way to fill unsold seats at venues, and always have sold-out events 2) A way to reward his members for spreading his message and bringing more people 3) A way to turn his audience into an army of promoters 4) A way to be independent of banks, and accept global payments 5) A way to have a global online movement that becomes bigger than Ashton Kutcher himself... having subcommunities be empowered to get together and form their own meetups, see it happen around the world, if they get large then Ashton and his crew can come and do a rock concert there It's great for political campaigns and many movements as well. We did it for Yang's 2020 campaign for example, with "Yang Gangs", that was very early days in 2020
  - miunau 2y ago
    Which one of those five have actually happened in reality, and to what extent? "The American Conservative further stated that a contingent of Yang's digital followers were only backing him for "a fresh platform for surreal and cynical humor" and that Yang had to denounce part of and distance himself from the movement, which largely stemmed from digital supporters of the Trump 2016 campaign.[85]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang_2020_presidential_campaign#%22Yang_Gang%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang_2020_presidential_...
  - habinero 2y ago
    Ok, I'll bite. I read this and my first reactions are: 1. How? 2. Reward them with what? 3. Fans are already promoters. 4. Why is this a good thing? 5. This is just describing fandom, which already exists?
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Oh sorry, this way the creator of the underlying infrastructure can collect rent from all aforementioned re-implementations of existing services.
      - EGreg 2y ago
        This is extremely vague and seems to be so on purpose in order to just have some nebulous "attack". Do you really think Web2 platforms aren't the epitome of rentseeking, by taking advantage of their role as middlemen?
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        Obviously existing middlemen are rent seekers. The question is why anyone should eat the cost of switching to a new, less proven rent seeker. To the hopeful new rent seeker, the pitch is obvious. To everyone else, the provided rationales tend to sound like a whole lot of bullshit.
        2y ago
digdugdirk 2y ago
Question for you - what are the most energy efficient crypto protocols that could serve as the underlying network for a distributed system? And have there been any studies that look at the total energy consumption of a system of any reasonable size using various crypto protocols?
- EGreg 2y ago
  Well, once you move beyond proof-of-work, the energy use drops 99%. It's not about energy, it's about bottlenecks. Blockchain has bottlenecks, and if you have one blockchain for all the apps, it's going to be either inefficient or centralized. Back in 2017, I designed a system to avoid global consensus: https://intercoin.org/technology.pdf https://intercoin.org/technology.pdf If you want to see a visual presentation that explains why we need to go beyond blockchains, then check this out: https://intercoin.org/intercloud.pdf https://intercoin.org/intercloud.pdf
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

hermanubis 2y ago

In the US you can’t grant coins any ownership or benefits that might vary in value. Meme coins are the only legal crypto so that’s all you get. It’s like Obama only legalizing giant pickup trucks.

necubi 2y ago
Can you name a single ICO that produced something of value before the SEC cracked down on what are (obviously) unregistered security offerings?
RC_ITR 2y ago
The idea that “you must be regulated as a security” and “you cannot issue” are synonymous is one of the weirder parts of modern crypto.
hristov 2y ago
Yes you can. Of course if your crypto is a security you have to treat it as a security, you have to register it file a prospectus, etc., but it is doable.
Aurornis 2y ago
We had an entire saga of ICOs launch and fail to deliver value. The notion that laws are preventing a golden age of crypto prosperity doesn’t make any sense. There are numerous countries where these coins can operate and they still don’t deliver any of these claims. > It’s like Obama only legalizing giant pickup trucks. What a weird claim. I assume you’re talking about CAFE regulations, but with an extremist conservative talking point twist. This is a favorite talking point, but people conveniently ignore the fact that we have small and fuel efficient pickup trucks that people don’t buy. Honda made a FWD unibody pickup that fit many needs, but people just don’t want it. Not to mention the fact that the CAFE regulations were 2025 targets, or that we have had multiple presidents since then and different political parties have had their chance to change things. Yet blaming Obama is fun, so let’s go with that.
- coffeebeqn 2y ago
  Has anything really changed since the ICOs? It’s just the same scams being wrapped up slightly differently but in the end 99.999% of these coins are net negative value to the world and their “investors”