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> These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils. That's what peace talks are all about. Do you think Japan and Germany had a say

> These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils. That's what peace talks are all about. Do you think Japan and Germany had a say in what they had to give up at the end of WW2?

defrost 2y ago
Both Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. Like Russia in this conflict.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Lots of defensive countries have lost wars too.
  - defrost 2y ago
    This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavourable deal on Kyiv. Which makes the above justification of a Ukraine absence from divvying up the spoils after a defeat rather circular.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      >This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavorable deal on Kyiv. I dont understand the difference here. Losing a war usually comes with unfavorable terms. Ukraine is absent from table because durable military power is the table stakes, and they were always a proxy. If the US has decided it is done using Ukraine to bloody Russia's nose and scare Europe into line, then it's basically over. From the US real politik perspective, it was always a win-win situation going in. The US will walk away with 2 new NATO allies, increased NATO spending, and severed trade with Russia.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  > Both Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. That's completely irrelevant to the outcome
inverted_flag 2y ago
This is more like the US agreeing to end the Lend-Lease program if Hitler promised to stop his conquest of Europe, allowing him to keep his conquered territory while demanding concessions from the rest of Europe.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
they floated treaties and peace offerings... and most of those were like "we get to keep all of Asia that we hold, we just stop shooting, and will throw $$2 billion your way" the Allies all met together and decided on the course of action on several occasions, like at Yalta

defrost 2y ago

Both Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. Like Russia in this conflict.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Lots of defensive countries have lost wars too.
- defrost 2y ago
  This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavourable deal on Kyiv. Which makes the above justification of a Ukraine absence from divvying up the spoils after a defeat rather circular.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    >This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavorable deal on Kyiv. I dont understand the difference here. Losing a war usually comes with unfavorable terms. Ukraine is absent from table because durable military power is the table stakes, and they were always a proxy. If the US has decided it is done using Ukraine to bloody Russia's nose and scare Europe into line, then it's basically over. From the US real politik perspective, it was always a win-win situation going in. The US will walk away with 2 new NATO allies, increased NATO spending, and severed trade with Russia.
ekianjo 2y ago
> Both Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. That's completely irrelevant to the outcome

inverted_flag 2y ago

This is more like the US agreeing to end the Lend-Lease program if Hitler promised to stop his conquest of Europe, allowing him to keep his conquered territory while demanding concessions from the rest of Europe.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

they floated treaties and peace offerings... and most of those were like "we get to keep all of Asia that we hold, we just stop shooting, and will throw $$2 billion your way" the Allies all met together and decided on the course of action on several occasions, like at Yalta