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These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils.
by inverted_flag 2y ago
These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils.
- rightbyte 2y agoI don't know why people are pretending to be surprised. When the Soviet Union or Uncle Sams props your army up to fight the other you were in for a bad time. There are like books written about events like these.
- duxup 2y agoI think if you're fighting off a straight up invasion you take the help you can get. That's it. This isn't your typical proxy war situation where US and Russia just pick sides in an internal conflict. This was something else.
- whattheheckheck 2y ago$9 trillion in minerals
- riehwvfbk 2y agoYou were told this was something else, and it resonated better because the people involved were culturally close to Europeans. But in reality was the messaging all that different from "Operation Iraqi Freedom"? Both were fights for automotive power sources dressed up as a liberation movement.
- duxup 2y agoI don't know what any of that means. What is "both fights" what are "automotive power sources"?
- inverted_flag 2y agoHe’s straining to draw a false equivalence between the Iraq war and the Ukraine war.
- riehwvfbk 2y ago[flagged]
- zfg 2y agoThere's more lithium in Russia than there is in Ukraine. Developing their own resources would be a better use of their time and money than invading Ukraine.
- defrost 2y agoMineral aquisition is a bit of a furphy here .. in my estimation the more important goals for Russia here were expanded access to Black Sea ports, main land access to Crimea, and water supply security to Crimea ... and a nostalgia for the Olde Russian Empire Made Great Again.
- rightbyte 2y agoI think it was mainly about not losing face internally when the separatists would have been defeated. Like, there was a bridge. Water can be piped. The port in Sevastopol was big enough. Etc. And there is no way some mines can repay all the costs just as the invasion of Iraq wouldn't be repaid by Iraqi oil ever.
- defrost 2y agoThe North Crimean Canal was shut down in 2014 soon after Russia annexed Crimea. As a water supply it was a greater than a single pipe .. or even ten. Crimea was running critically low on water after a few years and Russia was keen to restore that otherwise the taking of Crimea rang hollow.
- 2y ago
- 6SixTy 2y ago"both fights" are presumably the Ukrainian war and Iraqi Freedom. Automotive power sources is oil. What that all that means pretty much boils down to parroting Russian talking points.
- riehwvfbk 2y agoHow does it feel when Trump flips the script and outright says: we'll put a "people's leader" in charge of Greenland and then he'll sell it out to us. This is all that your color revolutions were all along, always.
- zarzavat 2y agoUh yes? Zelenskyy was a democratically elected leader and Saddam was a tyrant.
- rightbyte 2y agoBoth were propped up militarily by the US and ditched when convenient.
- riehwvfbk 2y agoYou may want to look up something about how Saddam came to power in the early 60s. He had not only the same CIA covert ops backing but even the same kind of TV promotion. That whole army fatigues getup should be familiar by now.
- rightbyte 2y agoI don't see how the political establishment was strong enough to do anything but being played, so contemplating whether accepting help or on the contrary playing along with the "special operation" thing seems like counterfactual history to me, even though such discussions usually are quite interesting.
- thunky 2y ago> you take the help you can get Was it really help if the outcome ends up being worse than without any help? I'm taking about loss of life, property, and land.
- fknorangesite 2y agoI'm unclear; what is the point you're trying to make here if not "welp who cares"?
- rightbyte 2y ago> "welp who cares" Yes, that is my point, that in the end, the profiteers and instigators don't care.
- ekianjo 2y ago> These aren’t peace talks then, they’re talks on how to divide up the spoils. That's what peace talks are all about. Do you think Japan and Germany had a say in what they had to give up at the end of WW2?
- defrost 2y agoBoth Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. Like Russia in this conflict.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoLots of defensive countries have lost wars too.
- defrost 2y agoThis seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavourable deal on Kyiv. Which makes the above justification of a Ukraine absence from divvying up the spoils after a defeat rather circular.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago>This seems less like a country losing a war and more like the US and Russia partnering in an attempt to impose an unfavorable deal on Kyiv. I dont understand the difference here. Losing a war usually comes with unfavorable terms. Ukraine is absent from table because durable military power is the table stakes, and they were always a proxy. If the US has decided it is done using Ukraine to bloody Russia's nose and scare Europe into line, then it's basically over. From the US real politik perspective, it was always a win-win situation going in. The US will walk away with 2 new NATO allies, increased NATO spending, and severed trade with Russia.
- ekianjo 2y ago> Both Japan and Germany attacked other countries to expand their empire. That's completely irrelevant to the outcome