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Why don’t posts like this ever explain what the end goal is? The biggest problem in my life is that all this work and productivity feels meaningless. Everyone i

Why don’t posts like this ever explain what the end goal is? The biggest problem in my life is that all this work and productivity feels meaningless. Everyone is always writing as if these goals are common knowledge but I don’t even know why I work anymore other than I can’t retire yet.

neogodless 2y ago
> This is also what I find most rewarding and experienced as an author: writing in the flow state The idea is that "finding flow" or spending your limited and valuable time in the flow state is an ideal way to live your life. It's enjoyable. By definition, it's not an "end goal", but a life goal.
- asdf6969 2y ago
  I want to know where their goals and favourite source of flow come from. Do any of these bloggers know what they’re writing or does it just sound good to other people who are also aimlessly playing on the computer? I want more depth. It’s a lot more enjoyable and “flow”y to get stoned and watch YouTube all day everyday but I know that’s not what he’s talking about. I want to know what’s so great about the work and personal lives of these productivity guru guys. Seems like they all just make another data analytics tool, AI toys, or write blogs for each other.
  - neogodless 2y ago
    I think you're mixing up concepts. Sure there are people that make a living from marketing self-help. Some of them might even really enjoy it. But flow as defined in the book "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience" by Mihály Csíkszentmihályi[0], is "a state of concentration or complete absorption with the activity at hand and the situation." In the book, it gives a few guide rails. Just enjoying something is different from it being in the sweet spot of challenging you, triggering growth, enabling you to learn something new or achieve something. Of course that could come from selling your book or making a YouTube video, but instead of focusing on other people, and their motivations, and what they get out of whatever they're doing, the whole point is to figure out where you are really in a flow state that you personally find fulfilling, and would want to repeat. If you can't find that, then forget about, ignore all the information out there, and find a different life goal to pursue. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354.Flow https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354.Flow
    - asdf6969 2y ago
      > focusing on other people, and their motivations, and what they get out of whatever they're doing I want to focus on this because I don’t believe in the idea of an authentic self and I want to know how anyone can find something that makes them feel this way, or at least how they can trick themselves into thinking some boring topic like writing productivity advice blogs can feel meaningful. Put this guy’s birth in 1800 and I’m sure he won’t feel any sense of loss because he can’t write anymore.
      - skydhash 2y ago
        Is there anything you like to do without being prompted by someone else? Something you have to take an active part of? That's the thing you're searching for. It's the act of doing that gives happiness and the fact that you've done something that give satisfaction. I don't think of it as authentic self or whatever. It's just something that I can do and I enjoy doing. It's not supposed to be objectively meaningful.
Aurornis 2y ago
Work and focus aren’t limited to your paid job. Focus states are helpful in everything to hobbies to inconsequential things like doing a puzzle alone or with friends. These techniques can be applied anywhere. The goals are entirely personal, so you can’t expect to find them listed for you in someone else’s blog post.
purerandomness 2y ago
> The biggest problem in my life is that all this work and productivity feels meaningless. This is an entirely different, more high-level problem (like software architecture vs. specific algorithms) Commonly, some may have a short-term goal (get a promotion / climb the next step of the career ladder / finish university) which gives them intrinsic motivation in such a way that they can't rationally explain why they are attracted to that goal. Motivation might be derived from responsibility towards others: Trying to get more done to have more time for kids / elderly parents / partner / hobbies / side-project startup idea. "Feeling no purpose" however is a very common problem. There are coaching programs, retreats, therapy programs and books revolving around this topic. It tends to be complex, and could be a learned behaviour pattern where one neglects their true intrinsic interests; undiagnosed depression; being in a field your parents forced you into which you have no intrinsic interest in, or a mixture of those and some others. I agree that generally, the low-level optimization of flow states only makes sense once you have found your true calling.
hinkley 2y ago
I’m reading The Choice right now. I can’t tell you if it makes sense without having read at least The Goal, but I suspect not. But that book still sells 100k copies a year despite used copies being everywhere, because it’s worth reading. The Choice may offer you some notions about the silver linings in failure. Eli loved when things failed because they helped him find the boundaries of the problem. Like a human SAT solver.
layer8 2y ago
The goal isn’t necessarily or primarily work or productivity. The goal is to regularly achieve a state of flow, which tends to induce happiness and satisfaction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)#Effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)#Effects I recently listened to the following talk by Csikszentmihályi, which I found useful: https://youtu.be/7Vfw7Du3XLU https://youtu.be/7Vfw7Du3XLU

neogodless 2y ago

> This is also what I find most rewarding and experienced as an author: writing in the flow state The idea is that "finding flow" or spending your limited and valuable time in the flow state is an ideal way to live your life. It's enjoyable. By definition, it's not an "end goal", but a life goal.

asdf6969 2y ago
I want to know where their goals and favourite source of flow come from. Do any of these bloggers know what they’re writing or does it just sound good to other people who are also aimlessly playing on the computer? I want more depth. It’s a lot more enjoyable and “flow”y to get stoned and watch YouTube all day everyday but I know that’s not what he’s talking about. I want to know what’s so great about the work and personal lives of these productivity guru guys. Seems like they all just make another data analytics tool, AI toys, or write blogs for each other.
- neogodless 2y ago
  I think you're mixing up concepts. Sure there are people that make a living from marketing self-help. Some of them might even really enjoy it. But flow as defined in the book "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience" by Mihály Csíkszentmihályi[0], is "a state of concentration or complete absorption with the activity at hand and the situation." In the book, it gives a few guide rails. Just enjoying something is different from it being in the sweet spot of challenging you, triggering growth, enabling you to learn something new or achieve something. Of course that could come from selling your book or making a YouTube video, but instead of focusing on other people, and their motivations, and what they get out of whatever they're doing, the whole point is to figure out where you are really in a flow state that you personally find fulfilling, and would want to repeat. If you can't find that, then forget about, ignore all the information out there, and find a different life goal to pursue. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354.Flow https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66354.Flow
  - asdf6969 2y ago
    > focusing on other people, and their motivations, and what they get out of whatever they're doing I want to focus on this because I don’t believe in the idea of an authentic self and I want to know how anyone can find something that makes them feel this way, or at least how they can trick themselves into thinking some boring topic like writing productivity advice blogs can feel meaningful. Put this guy’s birth in 1800 and I’m sure he won’t feel any sense of loss because he can’t write anymore.
    - skydhash 2y ago
      Is there anything you like to do without being prompted by someone else? Something you have to take an active part of? That's the thing you're searching for. It's the act of doing that gives happiness and the fact that you've done something that give satisfaction. I don't think of it as authentic self or whatever. It's just something that I can do and I enjoy doing. It's not supposed to be objectively meaningful.

Aurornis 2y ago

Work and focus aren’t limited to your paid job. Focus states are helpful in everything to hobbies to inconsequential things like doing a puzzle alone or with friends. These techniques can be applied anywhere. The goals are entirely personal, so you can’t expect to find them listed for you in someone else’s blog post.

purerandomness 2y ago

> The biggest problem in my life is that all this work and productivity feels meaningless. This is an entirely different, more high-level problem (like software architecture vs. specific algorithms) Commonly, some may have a short-term goal (get a promotion / climb the next step of the career ladder / finish university) which gives them intrinsic motivation in such a way that they can't rationally explain why they are attracted to that goal. Motivation might be derived from responsibility towards others: Trying to get more done to have more time for kids / elderly parents / partner / hobbies / side-project startup idea. "Feeling no purpose" however is a very common problem. There are coaching programs, retreats, therapy programs and books revolving around this topic. It tends to be complex, and could be a learned behaviour pattern where one neglects their true intrinsic interests; undiagnosed depression; being in a field your parents forced you into which you have no intrinsic interest in, or a mixture of those and some others. I agree that generally, the low-level optimization of flow states only makes sense once you have found your true calling.

hinkley 2y ago

I’m reading The Choice right now. I can’t tell you if it makes sense without having read at least The Goal, but I suspect not. But that book still sells 100k copies a year despite used copies being everywhere, because it’s worth reading. The Choice may offer you some notions about the silver linings in failure. Eli loved when things failed because they helped him find the boundaries of the problem. Like a human SAT solver.

layer8 2y ago

The goal isn’t necessarily or primarily work or productivity. The goal is to regularly achieve a state of flow, which tends to induce happiness and satisfaction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)#Effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)#Effects I recently listened to the following talk by Csikszentmihályi, which I found useful: https://youtu.be/7Vfw7Du3XLU https://youtu.be/7Vfw7Du3XLU