4 ms·

For what it's worth I have many years of technical experience and a pretty decent knowledge of IPv4 networking, and I found it quite hard - at least when first

For what it's worth I have many years of technical experience and a pretty decent knowledge of IPv4 networking, and I found it quite hard - at least when first learning. The addressing is intimidating, getting your head away from NAT, thinking about being globally routable, the lack of (or variances in) DHCP, ND, "static" addressing via suffixes, etc. None of this is technically "hard", but it's a significant barrier to entry because it's quite different to what most normal technical users are used to. Dual stack may create some new problems, but it fixes a lot of others. All of the major cloud providers have awful IPv6 only support, and many prominent web resources that usually invisibly "just work" have little to no IPv6 support.

ninkendo 2y ago
I think you thought it was hard precisely because you had a decent knowledge of IPv4. I suspect that if the situation were reversed and we always had IPv6, and someone proposed a new IP suite where you had to use NAT for everything, and all hosts needed to have their addresses hand-picked (or served via a DHCP server that used an ugly hack to communicate with hosts that don't have an IP yet), you'd find that to be the "hard" one.
- globular-toast 2y ago
  Yeah, it makes me think of finding an automatic car difficult because you're used to manual. I have noticed people are often reluctant to give up on something they had to learn, though.
- strken 2y ago
  The one objectively difficult thing about IPv6 is remembering an address. Four base-10 numbers between 0 and 255 fit in working memory, while eight groups of four hex digits don't. Even a shortened address can be difficult to recall.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    Your working memory must be better than mine. I can remember two numbers from 0 to 255, but four? Not in a million years. Isn't there an idea that our working memory holds seven pieces of information? Which would be two of those numbers and change, if you consider each digit as a piece of information.
  - WorldMaker 2y ago
    We live in an era with ubiquitous DNS, easy host file management, post-it notes still exist, and everyone has some note taking app or three on their pocket computer too. At some point if needing to remember an IPv6 address is your biggest concern with IPv6, that's a decent place to live and there are plenty of workarounds all around you.
    - strken 2y ago
      If you want to increase adoption of a technology then the onus is on you to convince everyone else. I think being dismissive of the human element is not going to help you very much.
      - WorldMaker 2y ago
        First of all, I don't have direct skin in this game, it's not my job to convince people to use more IPv6. (I think it's a good idea, but I'm not here to convince anyone.) Second of all, I wasn't being dismissive at all, I listed a number of good workarounds to enhance the human element, because yes human memory is (very) fallible. I'm also in the category that I've never been able to keep IPv4 addresses in my working memory (I can have a bit of dyscalculia, myself, and sometimes know all the individual digits but be entirely unable to retain their order among each other). I've personally always needed these workarounds, and was just providing a list of options for those new to this need. (Welcome to the club.) I also could have mentioned mDNS as a distinct subclass of DNS. That's most of what I use in IPv6 LAN stuff, personally, but I don't have a lot of subnets to worry about. Also I could have mentioned tricks like writing down a subnet prefix somewhere such as a .env script and using assigned addresses full of zeroes in that prefix like $PREFIX::1, $PREFIX::16, $PREFIX::cafe, or also, if you really want, and just miss dotted quads that much: $PREFIX::136.324.154.123 (that's been a supported address format for a few years now as long as it is on the right side of a :: shortcut).

ninkendo 2y ago

I think you thought it was hard precisely because you had a decent knowledge of IPv4. I suspect that if the situation were reversed and we always had IPv6, and someone proposed a new IP suite where you had to use NAT for everything, and all hosts needed to have their addresses hand-picked (or served via a DHCP server that used an ugly hack to communicate with hosts that don't have an IP yet), you'd find that to be the "hard" one.

globular-toast 2y ago
Yeah, it makes me think of finding an automatic car difficult because you're used to manual. I have noticed people are often reluctant to give up on something they had to learn, though.
strken 2y ago
The one objectively difficult thing about IPv6 is remembering an address. Four base-10 numbers between 0 and 255 fit in working memory, while eight groups of four hex digits don't. Even a shortened address can be difficult to recall.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  Your working memory must be better than mine. I can remember two numbers from 0 to 255, but four? Not in a million years. Isn't there an idea that our working memory holds seven pieces of information? Which would be two of those numbers and change, if you consider each digit as a piece of information.
- WorldMaker 2y ago
  We live in an era with ubiquitous DNS, easy host file management, post-it notes still exist, and everyone has some note taking app or three on their pocket computer too. At some point if needing to remember an IPv6 address is your biggest concern with IPv6, that's a decent place to live and there are plenty of workarounds all around you.
  - strken 2y ago
    If you want to increase adoption of a technology then the onus is on you to convince everyone else. I think being dismissive of the human element is not going to help you very much.
    - WorldMaker 2y ago
      First of all, I don't have direct skin in this game, it's not my job to convince people to use more IPv6. (I think it's a good idea, but I'm not here to convince anyone.) Second of all, I wasn't being dismissive at all, I listed a number of good workarounds to enhance the human element, because yes human memory is (very) fallible. I'm also in the category that I've never been able to keep IPv4 addresses in my working memory (I can have a bit of dyscalculia, myself, and sometimes know all the individual digits but be entirely unable to retain their order among each other). I've personally always needed these workarounds, and was just providing a list of options for those new to this need. (Welcome to the club.) I also could have mentioned mDNS as a distinct subclass of DNS. That's most of what I use in IPv6 LAN stuff, personally, but I don't have a lot of subnets to worry about. Also I could have mentioned tricks like writing down a subnet prefix somewhere such as a .env script and using assigned addresses full of zeroes in that prefix like $PREFIX::1, $PREFIX::16, $PREFIX::cafe, or also, if you really want, and just miss dotted quads that much: $PREFIX::136.324.154.123 (that's been a supported address format for a few years now as long as it is on the right side of a :: shortcut).