4 ms·

Whatever the reasons, modern societies are in a lot of trouble because none of them can stay above the 2.1 replacement birth rate. And every foreign group that

Whatever the reasons, modern societies are in a lot of trouble because none of them can stay above the 2.1 replacement birth rate. And every foreign group that comes into a westernized country ends up having their birth rate dropped below replacement within a few generations too (at least that is the trajectory for those that aren't there yet).

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
[flagged]
ImHereToVote 2y ago
Financialization of society doesn't account for externalities.
snowwrestler 2y ago
The dropping birth rate is neutral, a thing that is happening like the orbit of the Earth, or a rain storm. Every population’s growth curve levels out, and so will ours. Why? Who knows, and it’s an interesting topic to investigate. But understanding something interesting doesn’t mean that we can change it. Society will adapt. There are positives to work from. For example the horizon for every exhaustible consumable recedes as population growth slows.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Likely because those species which did not evolve a mechanism for population control went extinct: The parents consumed all of the available resources and their children starved.
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    That's what predators provide.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      Predators doesn't eat apex herbivores like elephants or humans, elephant variants were everywhere until humans started hunting them and had no natural predators.
- NewUser76312 2y ago
  >The dropping birth rate is neutral, No, sorry, I don't quite agree that trending towards population and demographic collapse is "neutral". I don't think it's neutral either that younger generations will have a painful fiscal responsibility to support the older generations who got to live their lives out already. >exhaustible consumable Stop with the fixed pie fallacy, that's not how our world works. We innovate and adapt. Look at how renewables are trending, electric cars are growing in market share, poverty rates lowered significantly as population grew the last 50 years, etc.
  - stemlord 2y ago
    Are you suggesting the population should grow forever, and that we'll "innovate and adapt" past resource consumption? Feels a bit techno-utopian idealistic no? Would much prefer a "painful fiscal responsibility" over living out some overpopulation nightmare scenario
    - Izkata 2y ago
      They used the word "collapse" for a reason: The problem isn't population reduction in general, the problem is in several countries it looks like it's going to happen too fast.
  - quantified 2y ago
    When the population lowers a bit the birth rate will probably come back up. There is no reason to believe in alarmism at a smaller population. If you're worried about the loss of our economic Ponzi scheme, let's fix that.
Etheryte 2y ago
You haven't outlined why this is a problem? Population growth overshot with expanding abundance and developed countries are now normalizing to a more sustainable level.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  when you had to farm to eat, you needed more farm hands. And lots would die young, or from simple injuries and diseases. better to have a couple more extra kids in case some of them croak at 8 or 13. with the plus side that now you have extra hands to work on the farm / shop / artisanal cooperage, etc.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

[flagged]

ImHereToVote 2y ago

Financialization of society doesn't account for externalities.

snowwrestler 2y ago

The dropping birth rate is neutral, a thing that is happening like the orbit of the Earth, or a rain storm. Every population’s growth curve levels out, and so will ours. Why? Who knows, and it’s an interesting topic to investigate. But understanding something interesting doesn’t mean that we can change it. Society will adapt. There are positives to work from. For example the horizon for every exhaustible consumable recedes as population growth slows.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Likely because those species which did not evolve a mechanism for population control went extinct: The parents consumed all of the available resources and their children starved.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  That's what predators provide.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    Predators doesn't eat apex herbivores like elephants or humans, elephant variants were everywhere until humans started hunting them and had no natural predators.
NewUser76312 2y ago
>The dropping birth rate is neutral, No, sorry, I don't quite agree that trending towards population and demographic collapse is "neutral". I don't think it's neutral either that younger generations will have a painful fiscal responsibility to support the older generations who got to live their lives out already. >exhaustible consumable Stop with the fixed pie fallacy, that's not how our world works. We innovate and adapt. Look at how renewables are trending, electric cars are growing in market share, poverty rates lowered significantly as population grew the last 50 years, etc.
- stemlord 2y ago
  Are you suggesting the population should grow forever, and that we'll "innovate and adapt" past resource consumption? Feels a bit techno-utopian idealistic no? Would much prefer a "painful fiscal responsibility" over living out some overpopulation nightmare scenario
  - Izkata 2y ago
    They used the word "collapse" for a reason: The problem isn't population reduction in general, the problem is in several countries it looks like it's going to happen too fast.
- quantified 2y ago
  When the population lowers a bit the birth rate will probably come back up. There is no reason to believe in alarmism at a smaller population. If you're worried about the loss of our economic Ponzi scheme, let's fix that.

Etheryte 2y ago

You haven't outlined why this is a problem? Population growth overshot with expanding abundance and developed countries are now normalizing to a more sustainable level.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
when you had to farm to eat, you needed more farm hands. And lots would die young, or from simple injuries and diseases. better to have a couple more extra kids in case some of them croak at 8 or 13. with the plus side that now you have extra hands to work on the farm / shop / artisanal cooperage, etc.