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Eclipse was _the_ tool when I was working with Java at the time. Slow and unstable is definitely my lasting memory, compared to virtual studio 2008/2010 which w

Eclipse was _the_ tool when I was working with Java at the time. Slow and unstable is definitely my lasting memory, compared to virtual studio 2008/2010 which was fast and powerful. > there were not real licensing issues Oh yes there were. Even in 2024 the “which JDK are you running on” debate still goes on. There are notable differences between corretto and openjdk, and openjdk and Oracle JDK. Here [0] is a stack overflow question that notes it was asked 10 years ago that talks about the various JDKs and the license change where oracle started charging for JDK access. As for your point about IDE’s vs non-IDE’s that’s a straw man. I said that you were forced to used an IDE for Java (which is of course not technically true but compared to rails which took of at that time it is), but also that the IDE du jour (eclipse) was pretty monstrous. I’ve said this on here before but the minute maven gets introduced into a project build times are measured in minutes. My current work project is c# and I can run my entire test suite faster than the jvm got itself up and running on my last kotlin project. Even IntelliJ and co suffer from these limitations - manually bumping the memory limits for IntelliJ and friends in 2024 is practically a requirement, and the startup times are very Java inspired. [0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22358071/differences-between-oracle-jdk-and-openjdk https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22358071/differences-bet...

watwut 2y ago
If you mean visual studio for dotnet and it is comparably piece of crap. A lot of unexplained behavior and it generally feels like someone just wanted to check boxes. Dotnet and visual studio actually made me love love a lot more after I worked with them. Java and Eclipse are waaay better then C# and visual studio. Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. Also, I see people using different JDKa on the same project. That there is competition is a good thing, it is not like you was locked in one.
- neonsunset 2y ago
  > Java and Eclipse are waaay better then C# and visual studio. Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. Except, unlike Kotlin, C# has a rich selection of what to use for development across a variety of platforms and is not constrained to JVM's type system limitations, allowing the syntax differences to have meaningful impact on the code execution. It also has excellent, comparable to Go and Rust, CLI tooling to further streamline the process of quickly managing, building, testing, running and deploying projects, something JVM ecosystem is yet to provide an alternative for.
- maccard 2y ago
  > If you mean visual studio for dotnet and it is comparably piece of crap. A lot of unexplained behavior and it generally feels like someone just wanted to check boxes. I disagree. dotnet has it's quirks, but so does every mature ecosystem. I wouldn't use "piece of crap" to describe it (or java) and I get that it's an opinion, but I think your opinion is more misguided than what yo're accusing other people of believing. > Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. My last project was a kotlin backend powering a C+ desktop app. The kotlin backend took longer to compile than the C++ did. Kotlin is the kitchen sink bolted onto Java. It's definitely a nice environment to work in, but it's certainly not a more streamlined java. > That there is competition is a good thing, it is not like you was locked in one. If by competition you mean OpenJDK forks with minor differences then yes there's competition. To me that's not competition, that's fragmentation.

watwut 2y ago

If you mean visual studio for dotnet and it is comparably piece of crap. A lot of unexplained behavior and it generally feels like someone just wanted to check boxes. Dotnet and visual studio actually made me love love a lot more after I worked with them. Java and Eclipse are waaay better then C# and visual studio. Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. Also, I see people using different JDKa on the same project. That there is competition is a good thing, it is not like you was locked in one.

neonsunset 2y ago
> Java and Eclipse are waaay better then C# and visual studio. Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. Except, unlike Kotlin, C# has a rich selection of what to use for development across a variety of platforms and is not constrained to JVM's type system limitations, allowing the syntax differences to have meaningful impact on the code execution. It also has excellent, comparable to Go and Rust, CLI tooling to further streamline the process of quickly managing, building, testing, running and deploying projects, something JVM ecosystem is yet to provide an alternative for.
maccard 2y ago
> If you mean visual studio for dotnet and it is comparably piece of crap. A lot of unexplained behavior and it generally feels like someone just wanted to check boxes. I disagree. dotnet has it's quirks, but so does every mature ecosystem. I wouldn't use "piece of crap" to describe it (or java) and I get that it's an opinion, but I think your opinion is more misguided than what yo're accusing other people of believing. > Kotlin is a pure pleasure against C#. My last project was a kotlin backend powering a C+ desktop app. The kotlin backend took longer to compile than the C++ did. Kotlin is the kitchen sink bolted onto Java. It's definitely a nice environment to work in, but it's certainly not a more streamlined java. > That there is competition is a good thing, it is not like you was locked in one. If by competition you mean OpenJDK forks with minor differences then yes there's competition. To me that's not competition, that's fragmentation.