3 ms·

So, my SO had a fellowship with the NNSA here. As in, the NNSA paid for their grad school. I'll speak to my own experiences here though as the spouse. The NNS

So, my SO had a fellowship with the NNSA here. As in, the NNSA paid for their grad school. I'll speak to my own experiences here though as the spouse. The NNSA is, like, bonkers important. I'll just copy-paste wikipedia here: "The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) is ... responsible for safeguarding national security through the military application of nuclear science. NNSA maintains and enhances the safety, security, and effectiveness of the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile; works to reduce the global danger from weapons of mass destruction; provides the United States Navy with safe and effective nuclear propulsion; and responds to nuclear and radiological emergencies in the United States and abroad." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Nuclear_Security_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Nuclear_Security_Admi... The reason it took until 2000 to make them is tied up with the silver tsunami and congress. But suffice to say, we really really need them. A lot of their stuff is very classified, but the presentation that I was allowed to attend were quite eye opening. Most of the presentations are on things like blast resistance in microsceonds of a door or some z-pinch magnetic experiment. But there were are lot on the national security picture at the time too. The main concern is that the nukes are aging. Stuffing 1950's breadboards next to that much radiation for 50 years wasn't the plan, we were thinking of using them a bit more quickly than that. But now we have them and can't be sure if they'll work. There are a lot of other issues too, big ones, but I'll let the interested people here discover more on their own. Here's a list of conferences that can get you going on where to find more: https://nssc.berkeley.edu/events-and-programs/nssc-conferences/ https://nssc.berkeley.edu/events-and-programs/nssc-conferenc... Youtube also has a lot of them online too: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nnsa+conference https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nnsa+conference The general side I saw was in my spouse trying to be recruited by the NNSA to work for them after graduation. The silver tsunami is a big deal in DoD government. And the issue for us at the time was the very much lowered pay. One of the main sites was the square mile that is Livermore National Labs. But with a PhD in the right fields and the NNSA fellowship, my spouse could easily just go across the Dumbarton bridge for about 4x the pay and mostly just as good benefits (the retirement plans aren't quite as stellar, but only a little). So, this is where HN/tech and the NNSA merge: employee competition. Now, I'm not surprised that they're reporting that a lot of the fired employees are not coming back. The big thing that they had going for them, personally, was 'the mission' and the quiet respect and admiration that the government and therefore the people of the US had for them and their sacrifices (classified work has a lot of sacrifice that is not seen, especially in nuclear work, much more so than beyond just pay). That they were fired, likely by some random 20 something from DOGE (read: not a flag rank military officer (Admiral+) or an elected official of national office (Senator+)), without notice, last Thursday. Man, that hurt the ego a lot, and fundamentally altered the bargain that they had with the government and the US people in general (from what very little I knew of those people). It is going to be very hard to get them all back to begin with, let alone for that same payscale and benefits schedule. That gap for 'fired with cause' is going to mess up the retirement in a way that is currently hard to fix (AFAIK). Many of the NNSA are just going to go get a better job, really. And the US is going to be left behind in the nuclear arms race that is still very much going on. Summary: Pardon my french, but, this is a big fuck up.

cloverich 2y ago
What if they offer 2x the salary to come back? Some are suggesting that is the strategy. I know of one example where this was done but in a private company with lower stakes, so i know the concept at least exists.
- mlac 2y ago
  It's not about money for government jobs. It's about the mission and, for many, the previously perceived stability + pension. The good ones, the capable civil servants who made the commitment to the government, do not need to work there but do out of a sense of duty, the interesting work, and commitment to the country. Offering 2x is like going to Thanksgiving dinner lovingly prepared by a relative and asking at the end how much they want paid. You know, to just square up. It couldn't have been more than $20 a head. The social contract has already been altered, and there will be a non-zero number of government employees looking to the private sector. The capable ones will likely leave on their own in the coming years. 2x is also likely less than the private sector is willing to pay. Try like 4x. It is this way for cyber jobs where we will see massive brain drain. The only way cyber compensation starts to get even is through contracting work, but even then it's less than private sector. Which shows the level of stupid this policy was. People in these roles are not fungible. That is a big logical error. People who can pass a background check with a PhD in Nuclear engineering aren't being pumped out every few months. They can't go to a web developer boot camp. There is a multi-year lead time and scholarships designed to attract them to the public sector. Same for capable cybersecurity talent (my field). This is also a warning shot to all those in the government that their jobs, no matter what they are covering, are not safe from the stupidity. And if the BS factor gets too high they will leave.
  - Balgair 2y ago
    I'll respond to both comments in just this daughter comment: > What if they offer 2x the salary to come back? Some are suggesting that is the strategy. I know of one example where this was done but in a private company with lower stakes, so i know the concept at least exists. With the feds, it's not easy to do this. You can, of course, but it'll take some very large wringing to do so. Think: this will need to be stuck as a rider into some bill that congress passes, and not before that happens. DoE/D pay is very rigid. Still, it's not like a 2x salary bump will make a difference at all. As I said, these folks can make a lot more than just 2x going into tech or a lot of other private sector jobs. Now, for the comment I'm responding to: > It's not about money for government jobs. It's about the mission and, for many, the previously perceived stability + pension. This X1000. These folks have dedicated their lives to nuclear science and non proliferation. It's a delicate point, but one that I think needs stating: You know in a Bond/Bourne/Spy movie where a scientist gets recruited by the BBEG and then the hero needs to go save them or take them out? These are those scientists. I am saying, without any doubt here, that these people would never do such a thing as betray their life's mission and engage in nuclear proliferation. But, if you ever wanted a nuke, these are the people that you'd get to make you one in ~5 years. You'd only need one of them, and they just tried to fire 3000 of them. Again, not a single one of them would ever do so. Clear? And I don't mean 'theoretically' build a nuke. I mean that these are the people that have the hands on experience with fissile material. They know the weight and smell of these bombs because they are the ones that have held them in their hands and have custody over them. They know the torque specs of the exact grade of steel bolts you have to use. That level of knowledge. This agency is why RU's nukes are falling apart. They don't have an agency that does what the NNSA does, and it shows. > People in these roles are not fungible. That is a big logical error. People who can pass a background check with a PhD in Nuclear engineering aren't being pumped out every few months. Precisely. It takes a long time to educate these people, and then it takes a longer time to have the older greybeards begin to trust them enough to actually get them working on these devices. It takes then even more time to get them to know the little things that aren't written down about how the nukes work. These people, again, are invaluable. And, to be clear, it's not just any background check that they go through. A simple SF86 is just the start. We're talking $250k+ in gov time and resources per person just to get started on the checks. Look, some of the folks that got fired are going to leave. They're mostly going to Europe and then working and doing the exact same job, just for the EU countries. Mostly in non-proliferation work, and some basic nuclear science. But they are going to be paid a lot more and they're all going to live in Nice or Florence too. The US is going to have to sweeten the deal a lot more to just get them back. This little move likely sent our nuke programs back at least a decade, if not 30+ years. Again, pardon my French, this is a big fuck up.

cloverich 2y ago

What if they offer 2x the salary to come back? Some are suggesting that is the strategy. I know of one example where this was done but in a private company with lower stakes, so i know the concept at least exists.

mlac 2y ago
It's not about money for government jobs. It's about the mission and, for many, the previously perceived stability + pension. The good ones, the capable civil servants who made the commitment to the government, do not need to work there but do out of a sense of duty, the interesting work, and commitment to the country. Offering 2x is like going to Thanksgiving dinner lovingly prepared by a relative and asking at the end how much they want paid. You know, to just square up. It couldn't have been more than $20 a head. The social contract has already been altered, and there will be a non-zero number of government employees looking to the private sector. The capable ones will likely leave on their own in the coming years. 2x is also likely less than the private sector is willing to pay. Try like 4x. It is this way for cyber jobs where we will see massive brain drain. The only way cyber compensation starts to get even is through contracting work, but even then it's less than private sector. Which shows the level of stupid this policy was. People in these roles are not fungible. That is a big logical error. People who can pass a background check with a PhD in Nuclear engineering aren't being pumped out every few months. They can't go to a web developer boot camp. There is a multi-year lead time and scholarships designed to attract them to the public sector. Same for capable cybersecurity talent (my field). This is also a warning shot to all those in the government that their jobs, no matter what they are covering, are not safe from the stupidity. And if the BS factor gets too high they will leave.
- Balgair 2y ago
  I'll respond to both comments in just this daughter comment: > What if they offer 2x the salary to come back? Some are suggesting that is the strategy. I know of one example where this was done but in a private company with lower stakes, so i know the concept at least exists. With the feds, it's not easy to do this. You can, of course, but it'll take some very large wringing to do so. Think: this will need to be stuck as a rider into some bill that congress passes, and not before that happens. DoE/D pay is very rigid. Still, it's not like a 2x salary bump will make a difference at all. As I said, these folks can make a lot more than just 2x going into tech or a lot of other private sector jobs. Now, for the comment I'm responding to: > It's not about money for government jobs. It's about the mission and, for many, the previously perceived stability + pension. This X1000. These folks have dedicated their lives to nuclear science and non proliferation. It's a delicate point, but one that I think needs stating: You know in a Bond/Bourne/Spy movie where a scientist gets recruited by the BBEG and then the hero needs to go save them or take them out? These are those scientists. I am saying, without any doubt here, that these people would never do such a thing as betray their life's mission and engage in nuclear proliferation. But, if you ever wanted a nuke, these are the people that you'd get to make you one in ~5 years. You'd only need one of them, and they just tried to fire 3000 of them. Again, not a single one of them would ever do so. Clear? And I don't mean 'theoretically' build a nuke. I mean that these are the people that have the hands on experience with fissile material. They know the weight and smell of these bombs because they are the ones that have held them in their hands and have custody over them. They know the torque specs of the exact grade of steel bolts you have to use. That level of knowledge. This agency is why RU's nukes are falling apart. They don't have an agency that does what the NNSA does, and it shows. > People in these roles are not fungible. That is a big logical error. People who can pass a background check with a PhD in Nuclear engineering aren't being pumped out every few months. Precisely. It takes a long time to educate these people, and then it takes a longer time to have the older greybeards begin to trust them enough to actually get them working on these devices. It takes then even more time to get them to know the little things that aren't written down about how the nukes work. These people, again, are invaluable. And, to be clear, it's not just any background check that they go through. A simple SF86 is just the start. We're talking $250k+ in gov time and resources per person just to get started on the checks. Look, some of the folks that got fired are going to leave. They're mostly going to Europe and then working and doing the exact same job, just for the EU countries. Mostly in non-proliferation work, and some basic nuclear science. But they are going to be paid a lot more and they're all going to live in Nice or Florence too. The US is going to have to sweeten the deal a lot more to just get them back. This little move likely sent our nuke programs back at least a decade, if not 30+ years. Again, pardon my French, this is a big fuck up.