5 ms·

It only works because you allow yourself to sorely disrespect human beings, their livelihood and their feeling of safety. A strategy that seems to be hot in th

It only works because you allow yourself to sorely disrespect human beings, their livelihood and their feeling of safety. A strategy that seems to be hot in the US, but is an utter ethical abomination and shameful.

ThinkBeat 2y ago
That is sadly life in private sector for a majority of all workers.
xg15 2y ago
Yeah, I mean that's pretty much at the core of Musk's (and Trump's) philosophy.
m_fayer 2y ago
I thought that a reasonably free, vital, innovative, and prosperous society was compatible with a fundamental respect for human dignity. That's why I moved to Europe. Now it seems I was overoptimistic, but that doesn't mean we should wholly embrace backsliding right into the 19th century version of "progress".
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  It is the same reason I moved to Europe. I don't think I was overoptimistic. It was literally the best decision I ever made, in every aspect I can think of.
  - throw0101d 2y ago
    > I don't think I was overoptimistic. It was literally the best decision I ever made, in every aspect I can think of. A lot of folks mention the lower salaries in Europe (generally, and especially for tech): has mattered much in your (personal) experience for quality of life and happiness?
    - holowoodman 2y ago
      What imho matters more is culture. There is less of a salary, but a culture of safety and stability. However, this is not for everyone: While you can be more sure of keeping your job in rough times, you can also be sure that the lazy idiot 2 desks over will keep his job. And you can be sure that any change will be resisted because change is seen as inherently bad and threatening, and reasons will be found to shoot down your new-fangled fancy ideas. YMMV, to each his own, etc.
    - yurishimo 2y ago
      For me, the lower salary has not affected my daily life too much. I saved a lot of money in the US, but now making about 100k between myself and my partner in the Netherlands, we are still living a comfortable life. We own a car, bought a house in 2024, and we are saving about 1k per month into various sinking funds with a net savings closer to 500/pm. No kids yet, but hopefully with raises and generous family leave policies, I think we will be okay. My quality of life is insanely better. I live in a walkable small city in the south. I walk to the grocery store a few times a week. I bike to the library or to the train station. My job turns off at 5pm and I don’t work on the weekends unless I want to. Even then, that weekend work time can be substituted for work during the week. The biggest downside for us has been the cost of traveling back to the US to see family. It’s very expensive for us to fly home since we also need to rent a car usually. Even saving 1k per month, that’s a significant part of the yearly savings just going to buy plane tickets for one big trip per year. After we have kids, I suspect grandma and grandpa will be coming here to visit more often because we can’t afford to fly with a family of 4 or 5 more than once every other year. Not to mention the tax implications of spending too much time abroad. If you can afford to try it out, take a 90 day visa and just chill and see if the lifestyle works for you (including remote work). Worst case scenario, you go back to the US after a year if you hate it.
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      No. But it depends on they type of life you choose to lead. I just wanted enough to buy a house and raise a family, and I could earn enough for this. A comfortable middle class life in a nice neighborhood. I also appreciate the safety nets and worker protections here in Europe. I recently went through a serious medical condition that in the US would have me bankrupt. Here I had no issues. Had I moved to the US I would by now be either dead or broke.
  - sillyfluke 2y ago
    I took the "overoptimisim" to mean that the parent thought Europe could defend and maintain this outlook well into the forseeable future, an assumption that is being tested by Europe's own rightward slide. The way things are right now in Europe, to say that it might have been overoptimistic to think that Europe will continue as it has makes sense to me. At the moment, it is unclear to most people who live there how much of their way of life (if any) is subsidized by the US.
    - m_fayer 2y ago
      This is exactly what I meant, thank you. I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted.
suzzer99 2y ago
Before the election, Vivek or Elon or one of the galaxy-brains floated the idea of firing every other employee in the federal government based on the last digit of their social security number. The cruelty is the point.
- roenxi 2y ago
  There is a difference between cruelty and arbitrariness. It isn't cruelty. They're going up against a world-class bureaucracy; a human powered machine that is excellent at dragging out changes beyond the term of any politician. Something like "Yes, Minister" is a comedy show except a lot of it is fairly true - they aren't going to get anything done without doing something drastic like cutting a lot of functions and seeing what happens. Otherwise it'll keep growing.
  - jakelazaroff 2y ago
    It’s not arbitrary, though. He’s attacking CFPB because he wants to launch financial features on Twitter without oversight. He’s attacking USAID because they helped end apartheid in his native South Africa. It’s really all just a bunch of petty vendettas and looting.
    - roenxi 2y ago
      > It’s really all just a bunch of petty vendettas and looting. Yeah. The technical term for that is "arbitrary". It isn't ideologically motivated; it is based on some dude's opinions based on who-knows-what internal dialogue. Although this financial features on Twitter sounds like a pretty good idea and I'd like to see it in the wild.
      - theossuary 2y ago
        You can't recognize DOGE as an extreme ideological endeavor simply because it aligns with your ideology.
      - jkubicek 2y ago
tremendoussss 2y ago
Government employees shouldn't be immune to layoffs. If the government goes bankrupt, everyone is much worse off. The longer these systems stay down the worse things can go, this is the most humane way to do what needs to be done. Which is take away the power (money) that the parasitic relationship between business and DC is built on and make sure we don't go bankrupt. They will be able to collect unemployment, do we know if they are getting severance?
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  This comment definitely appear to be written a bit too fast and with disregard to the context. Firing is not an issue. The issue is fire to rehire. It is not only indicative of poor leadership, but also does it break down institutions - one of the key values government provides. to contextualize: Do you think you can get people to go to war for the US if you can not make up your mind on whether or not to keep them on payroll? But we will see how the US will fare with broken down institutions.
  - tremendoussss 2y ago
    I am aware that it is about the fire and rehire. If no one can say why something should exist, then yes, the quickest solution is turn it all off and see what breaks. You might not agree with it but it is a valid strategy given all the dynamics at play. Your definition of leadership isn't my definition. I don't think we should go to war at all. I don't think you understand why Trump was elected or middle America culture. The popular vote was a vote against deterring and corrupt institutions that already exist

ThinkBeat 2y ago

That is sadly life in private sector for a majority of all workers.

xg15 2y ago

Yeah, I mean that's pretty much at the core of Musk's (and Trump's) philosophy.

m_fayer 2y ago

I thought that a reasonably free, vital, innovative, and prosperous society was compatible with a fundamental respect for human dignity. That's why I moved to Europe. Now it seems I was overoptimistic, but that doesn't mean we should wholly embrace backsliding right into the 19th century version of "progress".

surgical_fire 2y ago
It is the same reason I moved to Europe. I don't think I was overoptimistic. It was literally the best decision I ever made, in every aspect I can think of.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > I don't think I was overoptimistic. It was literally the best decision I ever made, in every aspect I can think of. A lot of folks mention the lower salaries in Europe (generally, and especially for tech): has mattered much in your (personal) experience for quality of life and happiness?
  - holowoodman 2y ago
    What imho matters more is culture. There is less of a salary, but a culture of safety and stability. However, this is not for everyone: While you can be more sure of keeping your job in rough times, you can also be sure that the lazy idiot 2 desks over will keep his job. And you can be sure that any change will be resisted because change is seen as inherently bad and threatening, and reasons will be found to shoot down your new-fangled fancy ideas. YMMV, to each his own, etc.
  - yurishimo 2y ago
    For me, the lower salary has not affected my daily life too much. I saved a lot of money in the US, but now making about 100k between myself and my partner in the Netherlands, we are still living a comfortable life. We own a car, bought a house in 2024, and we are saving about 1k per month into various sinking funds with a net savings closer to 500/pm. No kids yet, but hopefully with raises and generous family leave policies, I think we will be okay. My quality of life is insanely better. I live in a walkable small city in the south. I walk to the grocery store a few times a week. I bike to the library or to the train station. My job turns off at 5pm and I don’t work on the weekends unless I want to. Even then, that weekend work time can be substituted for work during the week. The biggest downside for us has been the cost of traveling back to the US to see family. It’s very expensive for us to fly home since we also need to rent a car usually. Even saving 1k per month, that’s a significant part of the yearly savings just going to buy plane tickets for one big trip per year. After we have kids, I suspect grandma and grandpa will be coming here to visit more often because we can’t afford to fly with a family of 4 or 5 more than once every other year. Not to mention the tax implications of spending too much time abroad. If you can afford to try it out, take a 90 day visa and just chill and see if the lifestyle works for you (including remote work). Worst case scenario, you go back to the US after a year if you hate it.
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    No. But it depends on they type of life you choose to lead. I just wanted enough to buy a house and raise a family, and I could earn enough for this. A comfortable middle class life in a nice neighborhood. I also appreciate the safety nets and worker protections here in Europe. I recently went through a serious medical condition that in the US would have me bankrupt. Here I had no issues. Had I moved to the US I would by now be either dead or broke.
- sillyfluke 2y ago
  I took the "overoptimisim" to mean that the parent thought Europe could defend and maintain this outlook well into the forseeable future, an assumption that is being tested by Europe's own rightward slide. The way things are right now in Europe, to say that it might have been overoptimistic to think that Europe will continue as it has makes sense to me. At the moment, it is unclear to most people who live there how much of their way of life (if any) is subsidized by the US.
  - m_fayer 2y ago
    This is exactly what I meant, thank you. I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted.

suzzer99 2y ago

Before the election, Vivek or Elon or one of the galaxy-brains floated the idea of firing every other employee in the federal government based on the last digit of their social security number. The cruelty is the point.

roenxi 2y ago
There is a difference between cruelty and arbitrariness. It isn't cruelty. They're going up against a world-class bureaucracy; a human powered machine that is excellent at dragging out changes beyond the term of any politician. Something like "Yes, Minister" is a comedy show except a lot of it is fairly true - they aren't going to get anything done without doing something drastic like cutting a lot of functions and seeing what happens. Otherwise it'll keep growing.
- jakelazaroff 2y ago
  It’s not arbitrary, though. He’s attacking CFPB because he wants to launch financial features on Twitter without oversight. He’s attacking USAID because they helped end apartheid in his native South Africa. It’s really all just a bunch of petty vendettas and looting.
  - roenxi 2y ago
    > It’s really all just a bunch of petty vendettas and looting. Yeah. The technical term for that is "arbitrary". It isn't ideologically motivated; it is based on some dude's opinions based on who-knows-what internal dialogue. Although this financial features on Twitter sounds like a pretty good idea and I'd like to see it in the wild.
    - theossuary 2y ago
      You can't recognize DOGE as an extreme ideological endeavor simply because it aligns with your ideology.
    - jkubicek 2y ago

tremendoussss 2y ago

Government employees shouldn't be immune to layoffs. If the government goes bankrupt, everyone is much worse off. The longer these systems stay down the worse things can go, this is the most humane way to do what needs to be done. Which is take away the power (money) that the parasitic relationship between business and DC is built on and make sure we don't go bankrupt. They will be able to collect unemployment, do we know if they are getting severance?

tossandthrow 2y ago
This comment definitely appear to be written a bit too fast and with disregard to the context. Firing is not an issue. The issue is fire to rehire. It is not only indicative of poor leadership, but also does it break down institutions - one of the key values government provides. to contextualize: Do you think you can get people to go to war for the US if you can not make up your mind on whether or not to keep them on payroll? But we will see how the US will fare with broken down institutions.
- tremendoussss 2y ago
  I am aware that it is about the fire and rehire. If no one can say why something should exist, then yes, the quickest solution is turn it all off and see what breaks. You might not agree with it but it is a valid strategy given all the dynamics at play. Your definition of leadership isn't my definition. I don't think we should go to war at all. I don't think you understand why Trump was elected or middle America culture. The popular vote was a vote against deterring and corrupt institutions that already exist