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So, this is obviously really bad(TM) when it comes to nuclear technology and security. That said, I think that the ‘fire them all and let God sort them out’ st

So, this is obviously really bad(TM) when it comes to nuclear technology and security. That said, I think that the ‘fire them all and let God sort them out’ strategy has a rational economic angle that journalists miss. The cost of all that headcount while you have slow change management vs just fucking around and finding out who’s actually necessary in a corporate setting can make sense, I think. Especially when teams are well entrenched. Journalists dunk on some CEO who had to rehire five people they needed, the CFO is happy to pay them double + a signing bonus, because the 95 other salaries, management overhead, and presumably political impact of that team is gone. I’m also of the opinion that even if it may be desirable to some to reset certain programs, that this method won’t translate to government very well; in particular my friends who are federal employees have communicated to me that they are very unused to this sort of treatment, and it’s extremely upsetting — that sort of experience en masse can have huge decades-long impacts in a complex system like the US Federal government.

dboreham 2y ago
Fine in a simulation but when there's human targets they may notice they're being shat upon by a tosser and adjust their future behavior accordingly. Put another way: social darwinism isn't side effect free.
lupusreal 2y ago
Sounds like Muntzing, but to organizations. Remove parts until it breaks, then put parts back in until it works again. Good for electronics or software, maybe not so good with people since you'll piss people off and eventually find that you can't just put them back.
crooked-v 2y ago
If a company did that to me there's zero chance I would go back to them, because it makes it obvious management has no idea what they're doing and the company is probably doomed in the medium term.
moogly 2y ago
Perhaps it makes more sense to start at the top and go from that direction. Does Tesla actually need a CEO, for instance^? What about SpaceX? ^: Probably, but perhaps a better one that actually shows up to work?
rqtwteye 2y ago
" that sort of experience en masse can have huge decades-long impacts in a complex system like the US Federal government." I am totally convinced Trump will be the most impactful president since a long time. All the stuff they are doing now will take a very long time to rebuild, if ever (it's their hope that it can't be rebuilt). In principle I think it would be very good to look at government functions and their efficiency. But you can't just walk around "don't know what this does. doesn't benefit me. Therefore delete". This may work in a corporation where the worst that can happen is that it goes bankrupt. You really don't want the whole country to break down.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > You really don't want the whole country to break down. You and I might not. Clearly there are people who do.
hayst4ck 2y ago
Admiral Rickover, the father of the nuclear navy and one of the greatest engineers of the last century, purposefully "over" hired. He was a major critic of private nuclear venture because business concerns being above engineering concerns leads to cost cutting pressure and disaster. We've seen the endgame of the private enterprise model in Boeing. Do we really want our nuclear arsenal and expertise subject to that style of operations? Nuclear disasters aren't an oops situation. They have the potential for centuries to a millennia of consequences. Institutional knowledge can be lost or not passed down. Training/onboarding/mentorship/morale/stress/culture are all things which matter and throwing the chaos monkey into that when there is the potential for CENTURIES of disaster is unconscionable. This is playing with fire, and you are justifying playing with fire. OK, but there's a difference between playing with fire in a fertilizer factory, and playing with fire around a campfire. Playing around a campfire is a learning experience. Playing around in a fertilizer factory you might instantly vaporize and take a portion of your city with you. You might fire all your product devs, but would you fire all your DBAs?! People are being chosen for positions based solely on loyalty and not expertise. That should scare the living daylights out of you, especially when there is no one with veto power over decisions that any sane person would veto.
anigbrowl 2y ago
You know how there are some things which there is wide agreement that we should be doing (in the private sector, or in the military) but which we can't do because let the institutional knowledge and tooling infrastructure wither away? You can't always reboot your way out of problems.
BrandoElFollito 2y ago
Nobody in a normal world is used to that. I guess that maybe in the world of startups this is expected but otherwise you do not wake up in the morning expecting to be fired.

dboreham 2y ago

Fine in a simulation but when there's human targets they may notice they're being shat upon by a tosser and adjust their future behavior accordingly. Put another way: social darwinism isn't side effect free.

lupusreal 2y ago

Sounds like Muntzing, but to organizations. Remove parts until it breaks, then put parts back in until it works again. Good for electronics or software, maybe not so good with people since you'll piss people off and eventually find that you can't just put them back.

crooked-v 2y ago

If a company did that to me there's zero chance I would go back to them, because it makes it obvious management has no idea what they're doing and the company is probably doomed in the medium term.

moogly 2y ago

Perhaps it makes more sense to start at the top and go from that direction. Does Tesla actually need a CEO, for instance^? What about SpaceX? ^: Probably, but perhaps a better one that actually shows up to work?

rqtwteye 2y ago

" that sort of experience en masse can have huge decades-long impacts in a complex system like the US Federal government." I am totally convinced Trump will be the most impactful president since a long time. All the stuff they are doing now will take a very long time to rebuild, if ever (it's their hope that it can't be rebuilt). In principle I think it would be very good to look at government functions and their efficiency. But you can't just walk around "don't know what this does. doesn't benefit me. Therefore delete". This may work in a corporation where the worst that can happen is that it goes bankrupt. You really don't want the whole country to break down.

mcphage 2y ago
> You really don't want the whole country to break down. You and I might not. Clearly there are people who do.

hayst4ck 2y ago

Admiral Rickover, the father of the nuclear navy and one of the greatest engineers of the last century, purposefully "over" hired. He was a major critic of private nuclear venture because business concerns being above engineering concerns leads to cost cutting pressure and disaster. We've seen the endgame of the private enterprise model in Boeing. Do we really want our nuclear arsenal and expertise subject to that style of operations? Nuclear disasters aren't an oops situation. They have the potential for centuries to a millennia of consequences. Institutional knowledge can be lost or not passed down. Training/onboarding/mentorship/morale/stress/culture are all things which matter and throwing the chaos monkey into that when there is the potential for CENTURIES of disaster is unconscionable. This is playing with fire, and you are justifying playing with fire. OK, but there's a difference between playing with fire in a fertilizer factory, and playing with fire around a campfire. Playing around a campfire is a learning experience. Playing around in a fertilizer factory you might instantly vaporize and take a portion of your city with you. You might fire all your product devs, but would you fire all your DBAs?! People are being chosen for positions based solely on loyalty and not expertise. That should scare the living daylights out of you, especially when there is no one with veto power over decisions that any sane person would veto.

anigbrowl 2y ago

You know how there are some things which there is wide agreement that we should be doing (in the private sector, or in the military) but which we can't do because let the institutional knowledge and tooling infrastructure wither away? You can't always reboot your way out of problems.

BrandoElFollito 2y ago

Nobody in a normal world is used to that. I guess that maybe in the world of startups this is expected but otherwise you do not wake up in the morning expecting to be fired.