5 ms·

>astroturf Is the much greater weight of EVs not worse for tire and road wear?

malfist 2y ago
Road wear? Not really. Tire wear? In the strictest sense, yes. But keep in mind, a lot of those studies measured "ev" tire wear by throwing a bunch of weight into the trunk of a gas car. Not exactly the same thing. Holistically, particle emissions from EVs are lower than gas powered cars due to reduced breaking (even above hybrids) and reduced exhaust. At the end of the day, the vast vast vast majority of road wear and particle emissions are semi trucks. Not only do they weigh a heck of a lot more, but they also wear their tires until they disintegrate, when was the last time you saw an exploded tire remains on the side of the road and it wasn't from a semi?
- patmorgan23 2y ago
  Isn't road wear scale with the 4th power of vehicle weight? EV vehicle weight definitely moves some needles in the wrong direction. A Toyota Corolla weighs about 3,000, the Tesla model 3 weighs 3,500-4,000 depending on which model you buy. So a 16-33% increase in vehicle weight. A Corolla will do 8.1 x 10^13 'damage points' A light model 3, 1.5 x10^14 'damage points' And a heavy model 3, 2.6x10^14 So moving to EV vehicles would move the damage done by the average commuter by an order of magnitude. There are of course much heavier vehicles on the road as well, such as a standard empty garbage truck weights around 33k pounds and will do 1.2 x 10^18 damage points. So significantly more wear per mile traveled, but there are also far more vehicle miles traveled by those lighter class vehicles as well. EV are probably still a net positive, but the real solution is to stop designing our cities and transportation systems exclusively around low occupancy vehicles. Walking, biking, and transit, also need to.be options for getting around.
  - malfist 2y ago
    Garbage trucks aren't exactly a good comparison here. Your typical empty semi truck weighs 35k pounds, and a lot more when loaded. There's also more miles driven by semi trucks than passenger vehicles
thebruce87m 2y ago
> much greater weight It was part of the astroturf effort to convince people that they are massively heavier, and you see it was successful with comments like this where it is claimed that they are “much greater” in weight with nothing quantified. Of course the hummer was heavier, but not everyone has the hummer. > full electric versions are only around 10% to 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent. https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-than-their-ice-equivalents/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-... > Starting with the Tesla Model 3 weighing in at between 1777Kg and 1840Kg > A comparable ICE car the BMW 3 series 1570Kg - 1965Kg > And another ICE car the Mercedes C class 1665Kg - 2190Kg > And finally another EV the Ford Mustang Mach-E 1993Kg - 2218Kg https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-perception-of-Tesla-cars-being-heavy-compared-to-other-cars-Is-there-a-significant-difference-in-weight-between-Tesla-models-and-other-cars https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-perception-of-Tesla-cars-b...
- akoboldfrying 2y ago
  > > full electric versions are only around 10% to 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent. The actual range quoted in the table at that link is 11%-17%. > > A comparable ICE car the BMW 3 series 1570Kg - 1965Kg Interesting that one "ICE" car can vary in weight by over 25%, or almost 400kg. Maybe it's because that weight "range" isn't really for that ICE car. The low end of the range is suspiciously close to the 1590kg figure for the BMW 320i, an actual ICE car: https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html/bmw-320i-sedan.bmw https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-se... While the upper end of the range is suspiciously close to the 1910kg of the BMW 330e -- a plug-in hybrid: https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html/bmw-330e-plug_in-hybrid.bmw https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-se... I guess both sides can astroturf.
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    I didn’t take me long to find this: https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/BMW/119385/BMW-G20-3-Series-M340d-xDrive.html https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/BMW/119385/BMW-G20-3... > Curb Weight : 4206 lbs / 1908 kg I suspect if I looked through every model I’d find heavier ICE only but close enough I’d say.

Road wear? Not really. Tire wear? In the strictest sense, yes. But keep in mind, a lot of those studies measured "ev" tire wear by throwing a bunch of weight into the trunk of a gas car. Not exactly the same thing. Holistically, particle emissions from EVs are lower than gas powered cars due to reduced breaking (even above hybrids) and reduced exhaust. At the end of the day, the vast vast vast majority of road wear and particle emissions are semi trucks. Not only do they weigh a heck of a lot more, but they also wear their tires until they disintegrate, when was the last time you saw an exploded tire remains on the side of the road and it wasn't from a semi?

patmorgan23 2y ago
Isn't road wear scale with the 4th power of vehicle weight? EV vehicle weight definitely moves some needles in the wrong direction. A Toyota Corolla weighs about 3,000, the Tesla model 3 weighs 3,500-4,000 depending on which model you buy. So a 16-33% increase in vehicle weight. A Corolla will do 8.1 x 10^13 'damage points' A light model 3, 1.5 x10^14 'damage points' And a heavy model 3, 2.6x10^14 So moving to EV vehicles would move the damage done by the average commuter by an order of magnitude. There are of course much heavier vehicles on the road as well, such as a standard empty garbage truck weights around 33k pounds and will do 1.2 x 10^18 damage points. So significantly more wear per mile traveled, but there are also far more vehicle miles traveled by those lighter class vehicles as well. EV are probably still a net positive, but the real solution is to stop designing our cities and transportation systems exclusively around low occupancy vehicles. Walking, biking, and transit, also need to.be options for getting around.
- malfist 2y ago
  Garbage trucks aren't exactly a good comparison here. Your typical empty semi truck weighs 35k pounds, and a lot more when loaded. There's also more miles driven by semi trucks than passenger vehicles

thebruce87m 2y ago

> much greater weight It was part of the astroturf effort to convince people that they are massively heavier, and you see it was successful with comments like this where it is claimed that they are “much greater” in weight with nothing quantified. Of course the hummer was heavier, but not everyone has the hummer. > full electric versions are only around 10% to 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent. https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-than-their-ice-equivalents/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-... > Starting with the Tesla Model 3 weighing in at between 1777Kg and 1840Kg > A comparable ICE car the BMW 3 series 1570Kg - 1965Kg > And another ICE car the Mercedes C class 1665Kg - 2190Kg > And finally another EV the Ford Mustang Mach-E 1993Kg - 2218Kg https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-perception-of-Tesla-cars-being-heavy-compared-to-other-cars-Is-there-a-significant-difference-in-weight-between-Tesla-models-and-other-cars https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-perception-of-Tesla-cars-b...

akoboldfrying 2y ago
> > full electric versions are only around 10% to 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent. The actual range quoted in the table at that link is 11%-17%. > > A comparable ICE car the BMW 3 series 1570Kg - 1965Kg Interesting that one "ICE" car can vary in weight by over 25%, or almost 400kg. Maybe it's because that weight "range" isn't really for that ICE car. The low end of the range is suspiciously close to the 1590kg figure for the BMW 320i, an actual ICE car: https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html/bmw-320i-sedan.bmw https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-se... While the upper end of the range is suspiciously close to the 1910kg of the BMW 330e -- a plug-in hybrid: https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-sedan/bmw-3-series-sedan.html/bmw-330e-plug_in-hybrid.bmw https://www.bmw.co.nz/en/all-models/3-series/bmw-3-series-se... I guess both sides can astroturf.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  I didn’t take me long to find this: https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/BMW/119385/BMW-G20-3-Series-M340d-xDrive.html https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/BMW/119385/BMW-G20-3... > Curb Weight : 4206 lbs / 1908 kg I suspect if I looked through every model I’d find heavier ICE only but close enough I’d say.