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Yup. My advice to young people is -- if you can't figure out what to do in life, make more $$. With enough $$ you will have a world of time to ponder what to do

Yup. My advice to young people is -- if you can't figure out what to do in life, make more $$. With enough $$ you will have a world of time to ponder what to do. I also regret that I gave up a FAANG level opportunity because my faily doesn't want me to go to another city. I would hit well over 200K TC by now -- a very comfortable salary in Canada.

karparov 2y ago
Quite the irony that the thread started with reminiscing about life and purpose and needing time and valuing relationships and you guys go into the "need to make more money" spiel. Here comes a secret: It will never be enough for you. It's not the money that counts. It's the ratio of income versus expenses, if anything. And if you grow one and don't stop the other one from growing in unison, then you have gained nothing. I know lots of people with 5x the income of me, but their expenses and lifestyle overcompensate, so they are much deeper into the hamster wheel than me. I could retire any day (late 30s). I currently don't do it cause my work is fun and I like the people, and the more I keep going the higher my expenses could become if needed. But the finances don't keep me in my job. And if anything comes along that looks sustainably more fun I will quit in a heartbeat.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  No. I already figured out my expenses, a couple of millions would be well enough. I'll quit job once I have one million.
- trevithick 2y ago
  Why is parent's advice ironic? I, like probably most people, would have more time for relationships I value now if I had followed their advice. Your first sentence reads as if their advice was "earn money at the expense of relationships and well-being" and that isn't the case at all.
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    I want to retire early and make music and games for 40 years after I turn 40. I don't want to wait until I'm 69 to retire for at most 11 years. Plus none of us know how much time we actually have. A lot of people plan to retire at 68, die on the job at 67, and your replacement is in your chair next week.
    - Gooblebrai 2y ago
      > Plus none of us know how much time we actually have Precisely because of this, you should be making music and games now. You never know if once you reach the amount of money you desire, death will knock on your door. If you are already doing it, that's great. But so many people defer the enjoyment and overwork themselves waiting for that future where they hit the number.
      - 999900000999 2y ago
        That's a good point, I make plenty of music, and every now and then I release a really small game. I can't imagine more than 100 people have played them, but in a strange way that's okay. It was never for other people.
        NoLinkToMe 2y ago
        I'd love to check out your games, if you'd be willing to post. I've spent 10 years dabbling in indie game dev when I was young, there's something nostalgic about seeing people's projects. Never published anything myself btw, it always stayed firmly in demo stage haha.
        999900000999 2y ago
        I have a few small projects on itch.io , but I'm not going to post anything publicly so I don't dox myself. I'm moving towards open source now, I do publish some projects under a different HN handle.
  - 2y ago
- incanus77 2y ago
  > Here comes a secret: It will never be enough for you. It's not the money that counts. It's the ratio of income versus expenses, if anything. And if you grow one and don't stop the other one from growing in unison, then you have gained nothing. > I know lots of people with 5x the income of me, but their expenses and lifestyle overcompensate, so they are much deeper into the hamster wheel than me. Yes. A thousand times this.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  > I could retire any day (late 30s). What would that look like? Do you have kids or a family to support? I'm one of two gainfully employed breadwinners among an extended family of 13 adults and 2 kids (my own).
- morgante 2y ago
  > It will never be enough for you. That's not a good assumption to make for everyone. There are many people who do grow income without growing expenses (see the whole financial independence movement). I spend about as much now as I did 7 years ago when I made 4x less.
  - darkwater 2y ago
    The issue is that for many FIRE people optimizing everything becomes THE main game. You retire and then you are constantly thinking "how could I do if XYZ happened?". It's probably better than having to write your own performance review or grind through a job you don't really enjoy, but it's still not what "live your life" is generally supposed to be.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
999900000999 2y ago
It's sounds vain, but money is probably one of the most important things. At my (our ?) level it's more a luxury of early retirement, but I had a friend who could never afford to move out. Her parents were pretty bad to her to say the least. She was stuck in a pattern of dating guys, moving in with them, getting kicked out and retreating to her parents. As I told her money gives you options...
- kelnos 2y ago
  Unfortunately agreed. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure greases the wheels. Money opens up opportunities and possibilities that you just aren't going to have without it. And not having money is a great way to suffer at least low-grade anxiety on a regular basis. Or a great way to actually be destitute.
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  Yeah. Money is something that doesn't necessarily bring you happiness, but lack of which would almost surely bring sorrow. I heard some people can live happily without money, but I don't know any of them.
hombre_fatal 2y ago
On the other hand, there are opportunities that are only open to you when you're young. Squandering those opportunities by working so you can be retired at 40 or 50 isn't free. Meeting people in travel hostels would be one example. Being a young single on a beach abroad is another. Traveling in general is another. Wandering around Prague with some beers and friends you made 6 hours ago hits different at 26 than it does as a retired 55 year old that waited to live their life. I live on a beach in Mexico in my 30s and see both ends of the spectrum.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Yup, exactly. I know someone in their early 30s who just quit their job and went abroad to spend a month living on a beach learning how to surf. I'm in my mid-40s and can't fathom doing that. I could do that; have the finances and professional flexibility to support it, but the main thing is I just don't want to. The idea of living on a beach in somewhat uncomfortable conditions just doesn't appeal to me anymore. Some things I'd enjoy or tolerate 15 years ago are things that I just don't want to do today. But at the same time I'm disappointed I don't have experiences like that in my past to look back on fondly. Don't get me wrong; my current situation is fantastic, and I'm in a much better place than I ever would have expected if you asked 25-year-old me where I'd be in nearly 20 years. But I'm still aware that there were paths I didn't take, paths that would have also made me happy.
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  I think it really depends on what people want. Some people want meeting others in hostels and that's perfectly fine. But I'd still say for the majority of us getting the FU money early has tremendous advantage. But I agree there is beauty in what you said.
steve_adams_86 2y ago
I earned over 200k base in Canada and it didn’t make that meaningful of a difference. I gave up chasing money and went to work for an NGO I care about, earning slightly more than half as much as before, and… I love it. I wouldn’t trade incomes if it meant trading the work. I thought the money would help, but with family, something will always suck it up. A trip, furniture, house, extracurricular, etc. I wasn’t getting much closer to any semblance of independent wealth, but I was burning myself out. I’m glad for anyone who can pull it off, but I haven’t met them personally. I have met people who ground themselves down trying, though. It’s a risky endeavour. You don’t have to go FAANG to earn over 200k here, either. But people will expect you to work for every cent of it, every working hour… and then some. It’s gruelling.
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  But would you work for an NGO if you don't have the savings from the 200K job? Maybe it's just me, but I never feel safe without the FU money, especially under this market. BTW getting 100+K working for an NGO is fantastic! I thought they mostly just pay for meagre money. I only earn some 130K and would definitely love to switch to an NGO job with lower pay.
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    That’s a great question. If anything I at least have the benefit of knowing what it’s like on the other side, right? Without that I’d very likely still be pushing for more. It’s all I did for 15 years or so. I didn’t even realize I was doing it. It kind of became who I was, always simmering away either up front or on the back burner. I’ll be candid. I spent a lot of my savings on a home that cost way too much, and burned a lot of it on… Burning out. I was unemployed for some time after a layoff and good god, the timing was awful. It was only months after getting my mortgage. So it goes though. Buying the house did a number on me. I thought it was going to matter. I thought it would finally feel like I did something important. I think it was a net negative, though paradoxically, it was the kick in the pants I needed to start to realize how futile my goals and methods were, so it was good in some ways too. I get what you mean about not feeling safe without the money. I grew up pretty poor and a lot of my motivations were essentially “never be poor again”. I’m still insecure about this, but much less compelled by it. I think going through a rough stretch of essentially living on lentils and water made me realize that the thing I was afraid of wasn’t actually practical so much as status-driven. In a weird way I actually enjoyed aspects of having to watch every dollar again. Having to be resourceful is engaging and interesting. Making good food with less makes cooking more exciting and rewarding. Solving problems around the house with fewer tools and supplies teaches you so much stuff you’d otherwise miss. I was confronted with the fact that I was previously comforted by money more from an ego rather than a practical or survival perspective. Well, everyone is different, but that made me feel like a complete moron and I began reconsidering my relationship with work and money. Which landed me here. Knowing what I know now, and without my savings, I’d totally take the route I’m on now. Without knowing and with the option to earn more? The idea of working this job would fill me with dread. Weird, right?

karparov 2y ago

Quite the irony that the thread started with reminiscing about life and purpose and needing time and valuing relationships and you guys go into the "need to make more money" spiel. Here comes a secret: It will never be enough for you. It's not the money that counts. It's the ratio of income versus expenses, if anything. And if you grow one and don't stop the other one from growing in unison, then you have gained nothing. I know lots of people with 5x the income of me, but their expenses and lifestyle overcompensate, so they are much deeper into the hamster wheel than me. I could retire any day (late 30s). I currently don't do it cause my work is fun and I like the people, and the more I keep going the higher my expenses could become if needed. But the finances don't keep me in my job. And if anything comes along that looks sustainably more fun I will quit in a heartbeat.

markus_zhang 2y ago
No. I already figured out my expenses, a couple of millions would be well enough. I'll quit job once I have one million.
trevithick 2y ago
Why is parent's advice ironic? I, like probably most people, would have more time for relationships I value now if I had followed their advice. Your first sentence reads as if their advice was "earn money at the expense of relationships and well-being" and that isn't the case at all.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  I want to retire early and make music and games for 40 years after I turn 40. I don't want to wait until I'm 69 to retire for at most 11 years. Plus none of us know how much time we actually have. A lot of people plan to retire at 68, die on the job at 67, and your replacement is in your chair next week.
  - Gooblebrai 2y ago
    > Plus none of us know how much time we actually have Precisely because of this, you should be making music and games now. You never know if once you reach the amount of money you desire, death will knock on your door. If you are already doing it, that's great. But so many people defer the enjoyment and overwork themselves waiting for that future where they hit the number.
    - 999900000999 2y ago
      That's a good point, I make plenty of music, and every now and then I release a really small game. I can't imagine more than 100 people have played them, but in a strange way that's okay. It was never for other people.
      - NoLinkToMe 2y ago
        I'd love to check out your games, if you'd be willing to post. I've spent 10 years dabbling in indie game dev when I was young, there's something nostalgic about seeing people's projects. Never published anything myself btw, it always stayed firmly in demo stage haha.
        999900000999 2y ago
        I have a few small projects on itch.io , but I'm not going to post anything publicly so I don't dox myself. I'm moving towards open source now, I do publish some projects under a different HN handle.
- 2y ago
incanus77 2y ago
> Here comes a secret: It will never be enough for you. It's not the money that counts. It's the ratio of income versus expenses, if anything. And if you grow one and don't stop the other one from growing in unison, then you have gained nothing. > I know lots of people with 5x the income of me, but their expenses and lifestyle overcompensate, so they are much deeper into the hamster wheel than me. Yes. A thousand times this.
paulryanrogers 2y ago
> I could retire any day (late 30s). What would that look like? Do you have kids or a family to support? I'm one of two gainfully employed breadwinners among an extended family of 13 adults and 2 kids (my own).
morgante 2y ago
> It will never be enough for you. That's not a good assumption to make for everyone. There are many people who do grow income without growing expenses (see the whole financial independence movement). I spend about as much now as I did 7 years ago when I made 4x less.
- darkwater 2y ago
  The issue is that for many FIRE people optimizing everything becomes THE main game. You retire and then you are constantly thinking "how could I do if XYZ happened?". It's probably better than having to write your own performance review or grind through a job you don't really enjoy, but it's still not what "live your life" is generally supposed to be.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

999900000999 2y ago

It's sounds vain, but money is probably one of the most important things. At my (our ?) level it's more a luxury of early retirement, but I had a friend who could never afford to move out. Her parents were pretty bad to her to say the least. She was stuck in a pattern of dating guys, moving in with them, getting kicked out and retreating to her parents. As I told her money gives you options...

kelnos 2y ago
Unfortunately agreed. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure greases the wheels. Money opens up opportunities and possibilities that you just aren't going to have without it. And not having money is a great way to suffer at least low-grade anxiety on a regular basis. Or a great way to actually be destitute.
hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
Yeah. Money is something that doesn't necessarily bring you happiness, but lack of which would almost surely bring sorrow. I heard some people can live happily without money, but I don't know any of them.

hombre_fatal 2y ago

On the other hand, there are opportunities that are only open to you when you're young. Squandering those opportunities by working so you can be retired at 40 or 50 isn't free. Meeting people in travel hostels would be one example. Being a young single on a beach abroad is another. Traveling in general is another. Wandering around Prague with some beers and friends you made 6 hours ago hits different at 26 than it does as a retired 55 year old that waited to live their life. I live on a beach in Mexico in my 30s and see both ends of the spectrum.

kelnos 2y ago
Yup, exactly. I know someone in their early 30s who just quit their job and went abroad to spend a month living on a beach learning how to surf. I'm in my mid-40s and can't fathom doing that. I could do that; have the finances and professional flexibility to support it, but the main thing is I just don't want to. The idea of living on a beach in somewhat uncomfortable conditions just doesn't appeal to me anymore. Some things I'd enjoy or tolerate 15 years ago are things that I just don't want to do today. But at the same time I'm disappointed I don't have experiences like that in my past to look back on fondly. Don't get me wrong; my current situation is fantastic, and I'm in a much better place than I ever would have expected if you asked 25-year-old me where I'd be in nearly 20 years. But I'm still aware that there were paths I didn't take, paths that would have also made me happy.
hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
I think it really depends on what people want. Some people want meeting others in hostels and that's perfectly fine. But I'd still say for the majority of us getting the FU money early has tremendous advantage. But I agree there is beauty in what you said.

steve_adams_86 2y ago

I earned over 200k base in Canada and it didn’t make that meaningful of a difference. I gave up chasing money and went to work for an NGO I care about, earning slightly more than half as much as before, and… I love it. I wouldn’t trade incomes if it meant trading the work. I thought the money would help, but with family, something will always suck it up. A trip, furniture, house, extracurricular, etc. I wasn’t getting much closer to any semblance of independent wealth, but I was burning myself out. I’m glad for anyone who can pull it off, but I haven’t met them personally. I have met people who ground themselves down trying, though. It’s a risky endeavour. You don’t have to go FAANG to earn over 200k here, either. But people will expect you to work for every cent of it, every working hour… and then some. It’s gruelling.

hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
But would you work for an NGO if you don't have the savings from the 200K job? Maybe it's just me, but I never feel safe without the FU money, especially under this market. BTW getting 100+K working for an NGO is fantastic! I thought they mostly just pay for meagre money. I only earn some 130K and would definitely love to switch to an NGO job with lower pay.
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  That’s a great question. If anything I at least have the benefit of knowing what it’s like on the other side, right? Without that I’d very likely still be pushing for more. It’s all I did for 15 years or so. I didn’t even realize I was doing it. It kind of became who I was, always simmering away either up front or on the back burner. I’ll be candid. I spent a lot of my savings on a home that cost way too much, and burned a lot of it on… Burning out. I was unemployed for some time after a layoff and good god, the timing was awful. It was only months after getting my mortgage. So it goes though. Buying the house did a number on me. I thought it was going to matter. I thought it would finally feel like I did something important. I think it was a net negative, though paradoxically, it was the kick in the pants I needed to start to realize how futile my goals and methods were, so it was good in some ways too. I get what you mean about not feeling safe without the money. I grew up pretty poor and a lot of my motivations were essentially “never be poor again”. I’m still insecure about this, but much less compelled by it. I think going through a rough stretch of essentially living on lentils and water made me realize that the thing I was afraid of wasn’t actually practical so much as status-driven. In a weird way I actually enjoyed aspects of having to watch every dollar again. Having to be resourceful is engaging and interesting. Making good food with less makes cooking more exciting and rewarding. Solving problems around the house with fewer tools and supplies teaches you so much stuff you’d otherwise miss. I was confronted with the fact that I was previously comforted by money more from an ego rather than a practical or survival perspective. Well, everyone is different, but that made me feel like a complete moron and I began reconsidering my relationship with work and money. Which landed me here. Knowing what I know now, and without my savings, I’d totally take the route I’m on now. Without knowing and with the option to earn more? The idea of working this job would fill me with dread. Weird, right?