3 ms·

It’s a steaming pile of shit too. FWIW you may be able to remove copilot from your subscription but it is still a shitshow. Google workspaces isn’t much cheap

It’s a steaming pile of shit too. FWIW you may be able to remove copilot from your subscription but it is still a shitshow. Google workspaces isn’t much cheaper, if you’re brave you could try ZOHO’s groupware at a significant discount but I’m sure that comes with caveats. I still can get my head around why Mozilla doesn’t dip its toe in here.

HarshaaVardhan 2y ago
Tell me about it. I just can't get over why it is this costly. None of the features except excel or word seems to be of any use to the user. Hoards and hoards of unnecessary security features have been piled up
- scarface_74 2y ago
  https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/12/09/simplicity/#:~:text=It%20seems%20to%20make%20a,a%20different%20set%20of%20features. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/12/09/simplicity/#:~:tex... > It seems to make a lot of sense: 80% of the people use 20% of the features. So you convince yourself that you only need to implement 20% of the features, and you can still sell 80% as many copies. “Unfortunately, it’s never the same 20%. Everybody uses a different set of features
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    > hoards of unnecessary security features I've witnessed first hand how incredibly necessary those security features really are. For example, installing mail server software on either Windows or Linux is trivial. Actually operating a mail domain of any import securely in the face of determined attackers, dumbass insiders that will click anything, and constantly changing anti-SPAM technologies and standards is a full-time job all by itself. This is why businesses rely on Microsoft 365 or G Suite.
    - simfree 2y ago
      Outsource mailservers to competent vendors like MXRoute at near zero cost. Stop focusing on the components that are pennies per user to outsource.
      - jiggawatts 2y ago
        You cheerfully ignored the “other employees clicking random phishing links” issue that is non-trivial to solve by simply outsourcing SMTP server hosting.
        talldayo 2y ago
        You can't fix that with managed hosting either. If you think going with Workspace or O365 fixes that then I have to wonder what businesses you've been working at in the past.
- simfree 2y ago
  MXRoute plus Nextcloud is a viable groupware alternative, generally at a much lower cost per user. One of the bonus features being your email is much less likely to disappear within Outlook.com's mailservers. Not sure what is going sideways there, but those mailservers are not reliable and mail traces are ineffective in finding lost emails that have proof of delivery to the MX record listed outlook.com mailserver.
  - HarshaaVardhan 2y ago
    Wouldn't management be difficult in this case?
scarface_74 2y ago
Looking at the business pricing, Copilot is an optional add on.
- simfree 2y ago
  Microsoft force upgraded most clients to Copilot included licenses. Nothing says Microsoft won't further change their arbitrary pricing and bundling structure.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    I’m looking at their pricing page. It clearly says optional add on.
    - HarshaaVardhan 2y ago
      It's an optional add on

HarshaaVardhan 2y ago

Tell me about it. I just can't get over why it is this costly. None of the features except excel or word seems to be of any use to the user. Hoards and hoards of unnecessary security features have been piled up

scarface_74 2y ago
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/12/09/simplicity/#:~:text=It%20seems%20to%20make%20a,a%20different%20set%20of%20features. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/12/09/simplicity/#:~:tex... > It seems to make a lot of sense: 80% of the people use 20% of the features. So you convince yourself that you only need to implement 20% of the features, and you can still sell 80% as many copies. “Unfortunately, it’s never the same 20%. Everybody uses a different set of features
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  > hoards of unnecessary security features I've witnessed first hand how incredibly necessary those security features really are. For example, installing mail server software on either Windows or Linux is trivial. Actually operating a mail domain of any import securely in the face of determined attackers, dumbass insiders that will click anything, and constantly changing anti-SPAM technologies and standards is a full-time job all by itself. This is why businesses rely on Microsoft 365 or G Suite.
  - simfree 2y ago
    Outsource mailservers to competent vendors like MXRoute at near zero cost. Stop focusing on the components that are pennies per user to outsource.
    - jiggawatts 2y ago
      You cheerfully ignored the “other employees clicking random phishing links” issue that is non-trivial to solve by simply outsourcing SMTP server hosting.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        You can't fix that with managed hosting either. If you think going with Workspace or O365 fixes that then I have to wonder what businesses you've been working at in the past.
simfree 2y ago
MXRoute plus Nextcloud is a viable groupware alternative, generally at a much lower cost per user. One of the bonus features being your email is much less likely to disappear within Outlook.com's mailservers. Not sure what is going sideways there, but those mailservers are not reliable and mail traces are ineffective in finding lost emails that have proof of delivery to the MX record listed outlook.com mailserver.
- HarshaaVardhan 2y ago
  Wouldn't management be difficult in this case?

scarface_74 2y ago

Looking at the business pricing, Copilot is an optional add on.

simfree 2y ago
Microsoft force upgraded most clients to Copilot included licenses. Nothing says Microsoft won't further change their arbitrary pricing and bundling structure.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  I’m looking at their pricing page. It clearly says optional add on.
  - HarshaaVardhan 2y ago
    It's an optional add on