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If you loved darcs, check out Pijul. They solved the exponential problem with first-class conflicts. Disclaimer: I am making a competitor to Pijul, but Pijul r

If you loved darcs, check out Pijul. They solved the exponential problem with first-class conflicts. Disclaimer: I am making a competitor to Pijul, but Pijul really is the spiritual successor to darcs.

leonheld 2y ago
Sadly my only experience with Pijul was this https://github.com/Eugeny/russh/issues/151 https://github.com/Eugeny/russh/issues/151. When one of the key guys behind the VCS says things like "especially when the alternative is something as broken as Git" about other control systems I really don't feel like using said tool.
- gavinhoward 2y ago
  I can see your point. This is a good reminder to me that I need to control my tongue as well; I have said things like the Pijul author did in that thread, and I need to do better.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    That’s a classy reply.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      I can’t still edit that comment to explain, but I meant it sincerely. When someone sees a foible of their own in others and moves to correct it, that’s awesome and commendable.
      - gavinhoward 2y ago
        Yeah, I don't know why you were downvoted. I upvoted you because I was sure you were replying to me sincerely.
        kstrauser 2y ago
        Eh, you never can tell. I assume someone thought I was being sarcastic. I don't care if someone downvotes me, but I'd hope it'd be because I'd genuinely said something dumb or unkind.
- nmz 2y ago
  Linus called cvs/subversion broken, did you stop using git?
  - leonheld 2y ago
    I was like 4 years old when git was released, so I'm unaware of any of this. Sorry.
    - nmz 2y ago
      Well he didn't really call cvs/subversion broken, to semi quote, he basically said that subversion people were trying to improve on cvs and you cannot do that because cvs is inherently broken. Its not damning to call something broken, plenty of software has bugs that make it unusable and are broken to many people. In fact, many tools have been made in anger at other tools not doing what you want them to do. This is just the software inception cycle. You should be allowed to be angry at the brokenness of software... its what allows improvement.
adastra22 2y ago
I like the idea of Pijul, not the implantation (so far). What are you building and where can I get it?
- gavinhoward 2y ago
  It is not ready yet, sorry!
  - networked 2y ago
    Probably a good idea to have a place where those who are interested can wait for an update. You can create a mailing list or a GitHub repository that one can star or watch today. (Later, you could use the repository to mirror the source code of your VCS.)
    - gavinhoward 2y ago
      You are absolutely right. To be honest, though, I don't want to even mirror that repo on GitHub. Not doing so means I don't have to agree on their onerous T&C for that code. I was planning on streaming my work on Twitch once I truly get started. I was hoping that might be a goid place for updates.
      - adastra22 2y ago
        What is onerous about GitHub’s ToS?
        gavinhoward 2y ago
        They could arbitrarily decide that I am a persona non grata and lock me out. They claim rights above what FOSS licenses allow, and I do not want that. I do not want my code to end up in their LLMs. Yes, I have blocked them from my self-hosted forge too.
blurbleblurble 2y ago
I wonder if you're open to making something that can double as a p2p data store for collaborative p2p applications, including web apps? That was always my wish for pijul, that I could use it in this way.
- gavinhoward 2y ago
  Mine will allow cloning all data, including issues, PRs, and real-time chats (Zulip-style). I think that might cover your bases.
  - blurbleblurble 2y ago
    Do you mean that your system will have some built-in collaboration features? Sounds pretty cool. I'm curious to understand if the underlying patch data structure functionality will be usable as a library to build custom stuff on top?
    - gavinhoward 2y ago
      > Do you mean that your system will have some built-in collaboration features? Yes. [1] But that is only chat/discussions. In the future, Yore might get real-time collaboration like Google Docs, but that depends on it taking off. > I'm curious to understand if the underlying data structure functionality will be usable as a library. Yes. [2] [1]: https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/design.md#discussionschat https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/d... [2]: https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/design.md#library https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/d...

leonheld 2y ago

Sadly my only experience with Pijul was this https://github.com/Eugeny/russh/issues/151 https://github.com/Eugeny/russh/issues/151. When one of the key guys behind the VCS says things like "especially when the alternative is something as broken as Git" about other control systems I really don't feel like using said tool.

gavinhoward 2y ago
I can see your point. This is a good reminder to me that I need to control my tongue as well; I have said things like the Pijul author did in that thread, and I need to do better.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  That’s a classy reply.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    I can’t still edit that comment to explain, but I meant it sincerely. When someone sees a foible of their own in others and moves to correct it, that’s awesome and commendable.
    - gavinhoward 2y ago
      Yeah, I don't know why you were downvoted. I upvoted you because I was sure you were replying to me sincerely.
      - kstrauser 2y ago
        Eh, you never can tell. I assume someone thought I was being sarcastic. I don't care if someone downvotes me, but I'd hope it'd be because I'd genuinely said something dumb or unkind.
nmz 2y ago
Linus called cvs/subversion broken, did you stop using git?
- leonheld 2y ago
  I was like 4 years old when git was released, so I'm unaware of any of this. Sorry.
  - nmz 2y ago
    Well he didn't really call cvs/subversion broken, to semi quote, he basically said that subversion people were trying to improve on cvs and you cannot do that because cvs is inherently broken. Its not damning to call something broken, plenty of software has bugs that make it unusable and are broken to many people. In fact, many tools have been made in anger at other tools not doing what you want them to do. This is just the software inception cycle. You should be allowed to be angry at the brokenness of software... its what allows improvement.

adastra22 2y ago

I like the idea of Pijul, not the implantation (so far). What are you building and where can I get it?

gavinhoward 2y ago
It is not ready yet, sorry!
- networked 2y ago
  Probably a good idea to have a place where those who are interested can wait for an update. You can create a mailing list or a GitHub repository that one can star or watch today. (Later, you could use the repository to mirror the source code of your VCS.)
  - gavinhoward 2y ago
    You are absolutely right. To be honest, though, I don't want to even mirror that repo on GitHub. Not doing so means I don't have to agree on their onerous T&C for that code. I was planning on streaming my work on Twitch once I truly get started. I was hoping that might be a goid place for updates.
    - adastra22 2y ago
      What is onerous about GitHub’s ToS?
      - gavinhoward 2y ago
        They could arbitrarily decide that I am a persona non grata and lock me out. They claim rights above what FOSS licenses allow, and I do not want that. I do not want my code to end up in their LLMs. Yes, I have blocked them from my self-hosted forge too.

blurbleblurble 2y ago

I wonder if you're open to making something that can double as a p2p data store for collaborative p2p applications, including web apps? That was always my wish for pijul, that I could use it in this way.

gavinhoward 2y ago
Mine will allow cloning all data, including issues, PRs, and real-time chats (Zulip-style). I think that might cover your bases.
- blurbleblurble 2y ago
  Do you mean that your system will have some built-in collaboration features? Sounds pretty cool. I'm curious to understand if the underlying patch data structure functionality will be usable as a library to build custom stuff on top?
  - gavinhoward 2y ago
    > Do you mean that your system will have some built-in collaboration features? Yes. [1] But that is only chat/discussions. In the future, Yore might get real-time collaboration like Google Docs, but that depends on it taking off. > I'm curious to understand if the underlying data structure functionality will be usable as a library. Yes. [2] [1]: https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/design.md#discussionschat https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/d... [2]: https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/design.md#library https://git.yzena.com/Yzena/Yc/src/branch/master/docs/yore/d...