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> Think about it - if these formations were not leakproof on geological scale, there wouldn't be any oil and gas for us to extract in the first place. This is

> Think about it - if these formations were not leakproof on geological scale, there wouldn't be any oil and gas for us to extract in the first place. This is survivor bias. We only see the sites where it didn't leak too much, and extract from it. The sites that leaked, we don't hear about them (no oil to extract). In fact, a quick search shows that there are many leaking sites (both on land and under the oceans). The argument you present is a case of survivor bias, especially on the time scale of multiple millions years.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> This is survivor bias. We only see the sites where it didn't leak too much, and extract from it …those are the sites we’re pumping the CO2 into.
- holocenenough 2y ago
  "This pressurized tank is doing a great job not leaking, that means it will never leak! Let's keep filling it up, WOO!" Strawmanning you a bit but surely you see that this line of reasoning leaves a little to be desired?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > surely you see that this line of reasoning leaves a little to be desired? When responding to innumerate “napkin maths” and a sourceless speculation, on one hand, and a multibillion-dollar practice done by experts, on the other hand, no, not really.
    - holocenenough 2y ago
      I didn't make the initial post, and 'unsourced in this particular instance' doesn't mean there's no legitimate basis for OP's claims. To be clear, I'm not anti-CCS, but I have an environmental degree and based on my admittedly nonexpert opinion I agree with OP's assertion that it's not really a solution - it's a temporary measure at best. But yeah I see your point - no multibillion dollar industry filled with experts has ever done anything ill-advised, futile, or environmentally damaging simply for profit. cough corn ethanol Can you imagine how the world would look if that were the case? https://theicct.org/carbon-capture-and-storage-a-lot-of-eggs-in-a-potentially-leaky-basket/ https://theicct.org/carbon-capture-and-storage-a-lot-of-eggs... https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/09/13/leakage-at-first-u-s-carbon-capture-injection-well-proves-that-ccs-cant-work/ https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/09/13/leakage-at-firs... There are a number of scientific papers that are also skeptical about the long-term viability of underground CCS strategies but they're all paywalled so I didn't link them here, but you should seek them out yourself.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > no multibillion dollar industry filled with experts has ever done anything ill-advised, futile, or environmentally damaging simply for profit Sure, they’re scandals. Scandals have sourcing. Not supposition. Someone who assumes industry is always evil isn’t a reliable source. I’ll note that your sources are both credible and the first in this thread.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> This is survivor bias. We only see the sites where it didn't leak too much, and extract from it …those are the sites we’re pumping the CO2 into.

holocenenough 2y ago
"This pressurized tank is doing a great job not leaking, that means it will never leak! Let's keep filling it up, WOO!" Strawmanning you a bit but surely you see that this line of reasoning leaves a little to be desired?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > surely you see that this line of reasoning leaves a little to be desired? When responding to innumerate “napkin maths” and a sourceless speculation, on one hand, and a multibillion-dollar practice done by experts, on the other hand, no, not really.
  - holocenenough 2y ago
    I didn't make the initial post, and 'unsourced in this particular instance' doesn't mean there's no legitimate basis for OP's claims. To be clear, I'm not anti-CCS, but I have an environmental degree and based on my admittedly nonexpert opinion I agree with OP's assertion that it's not really a solution - it's a temporary measure at best. But yeah I see your point - no multibillion dollar industry filled with experts has ever done anything ill-advised, futile, or environmentally damaging simply for profit. cough corn ethanol Can you imagine how the world would look if that were the case? https://theicct.org/carbon-capture-and-storage-a-lot-of-eggs-in-a-potentially-leaky-basket/ https://theicct.org/carbon-capture-and-storage-a-lot-of-eggs... https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/09/13/leakage-at-first-u-s-carbon-capture-injection-well-proves-that-ccs-cant-work/ https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2024/09/13/leakage-at-firs... There are a number of scientific papers that are also skeptical about the long-term viability of underground CCS strategies but they're all paywalled so I didn't link them here, but you should seek them out yourself.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > no multibillion dollar industry filled with experts has ever done anything ill-advised, futile, or environmentally damaging simply for profit Sure, they’re scandals. Scandals have sourcing. Not supposition. Someone who assumes industry is always evil isn’t a reliable source. I’ll note that your sources are both credible and the first in this thread.