3 ms·

I also have clinical depression, and this has also been my experience. Something which also adds to the problems is that people so often condescend - 'you won'

I also have clinical depression, and this has also been my experience. Something which also adds to the problems is that people so often condescend - 'you won't feel better unless you do X, Y or Z' and actually essentially accuse you of bringing it on yourself. And a lot of the problem is the guilt you feel about everything, so it's the worst possible thing you can do for a depressed person. I find having some project that gives you an output is important, to contradict the standard 'oh don't spend so much time on a computer project' points. The alternative a lot of the time for me is spending all day in bed because I feel so low, so having an outlet matters. But of course you then find it hard to balance that. Having said that, all the standard healthy advice is important too. It's just really important to differentiate between mild and severe depression - it's like the difference between having the flu and people recommending painkillers and having a serious chronic disease. The advice is good for mild depression but really not going to touch anything for the severe variety. For people who are lucky enough not to suffer from severe depression - don't presume to know what it's like because you've felt a little bit low before. /rant

DanBC 14y ago
"clinical" depression is meaningless. Literally, it has no meaning. Perhaps you mean "Diagnosed by a real doctor", as opposed to "self diagnosed from a check list"? But when we look at depression diagnosed by experts we see a variety of forms, and a variety of strengths. I agree that well meaning people sometimes offer really bad advice. But advice about developing a healthy lifestyle (being careful with caffeine, alcohol, recreational drugs; eating better; sorting out sleep; getting exercise) and developing a social life are important, because these thing help people with very serious, life threatening, illness. In combination with therapy they can be part of an effective cure for many people. (At least leaving others with several years of recovery). If needed, this advice can be combined with medication. And, if needed, all of this stuff can be started if the patient is in hospital. (At least in England all MH hospitals should have programmes of OT to start social life outside hospital and they should have some kind of exercise stuff, and contacts with local gyms.) I've known people who are ill enough to require electro convulsive therapy and they said that this other stuff was important to them, but that they needed help to apply it. And that's the important thing. Saying "I am to ill to do this stuff" is not the same as saying "this stuff would not be helpful to me if I did it". What people need is help to apply this stuff.
- singular 14y ago
  Well, to me 'clinical' depression implies diagnosed by a doctor, yes. Sure, and it does vary a lot. So perhaps I meant to say severe vs. mild. People overstate these things to a degree. Like I said, sure they help, but it's scratching the surface IMHO. What's more important is to attack the depression itself, directly. And, though anecdotal, I've been through periods being severely depressed despite going to the gym a lot, and eating relatively well, and had it make very little difference. I've also socialised a lot and had that make no difference. So this isn't just conjecture. I guess part of it is that it varies from person to person. Also the degree of the depression at any given time waxes and wanes. And agreed, a key thing is to admit you can't do it all by yourself, and go and get help. The key thing, however, is for people to lose that attitude of 'go get a life doing things I think are healthy/fun and you'll be happy' because, basically, that's b.s. projection, and for some it borders on blame-the-victim mentality. I think diseases like depression are particularly problematic because people don't take them seriously and imagine that they're not all that serious, perhaps slightly made up, or not as solid and easy to diagnose and understand as a physical illness. Perhaps people need to come to respect it more.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    In most cases CBT & exercise and better food is attacking the depression itself, directly. > The key thing, however, is for people to lose that attitude of 'go get a life doing things I think are healthy/fun and you'll be happy' because, basically, that's b.s. projection, Yes, I agree.
    - singular 14y ago
      Yeah, I guess I'm saying CBT (+ related, I find SBT[1] very effective myself) >>> lifestyle improvements. [1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_therapy
- slurgfest 14y ago
  The phrase "clinical depression" distinguishes depression (in the clinical, officially-diagnosed sense) from depression (in the informal, no-more-cookies-angst sense). If you want to know more about the technical meaning of "depression," consult DSM.

DanBC 14y ago

"clinical" depression is meaningless. Literally, it has no meaning. Perhaps you mean "Diagnosed by a real doctor", as opposed to "self diagnosed from a check list"? But when we look at depression diagnosed by experts we see a variety of forms, and a variety of strengths. I agree that well meaning people sometimes offer really bad advice. But advice about developing a healthy lifestyle (being careful with caffeine, alcohol, recreational drugs; eating better; sorting out sleep; getting exercise) and developing a social life are important, because these thing help people with very serious, life threatening, illness. In combination with therapy they can be part of an effective cure for many people. (At least leaving others with several years of recovery). If needed, this advice can be combined with medication. And, if needed, all of this stuff can be started if the patient is in hospital. (At least in England all MH hospitals should have programmes of OT to start social life outside hospital and they should have some kind of exercise stuff, and contacts with local gyms.) I've known people who are ill enough to require electro convulsive therapy and they said that this other stuff was important to them, but that they needed help to apply it. And that's the important thing. Saying "I am to ill to do this stuff" is not the same as saying "this stuff would not be helpful to me if I did it". What people need is help to apply this stuff.

singular 14y ago
Well, to me 'clinical' depression implies diagnosed by a doctor, yes. Sure, and it does vary a lot. So perhaps I meant to say severe vs. mild. People overstate these things to a degree. Like I said, sure they help, but it's scratching the surface IMHO. What's more important is to attack the depression itself, directly. And, though anecdotal, I've been through periods being severely depressed despite going to the gym a lot, and eating relatively well, and had it make very little difference. I've also socialised a lot and had that make no difference. So this isn't just conjecture. I guess part of it is that it varies from person to person. Also the degree of the depression at any given time waxes and wanes. And agreed, a key thing is to admit you can't do it all by yourself, and go and get help. The key thing, however, is for people to lose that attitude of 'go get a life doing things I think are healthy/fun and you'll be happy' because, basically, that's b.s. projection, and for some it borders on blame-the-victim mentality. I think diseases like depression are particularly problematic because people don't take them seriously and imagine that they're not all that serious, perhaps slightly made up, or not as solid and easy to diagnose and understand as a physical illness. Perhaps people need to come to respect it more.
- DanBC 14y ago
  In most cases CBT & exercise and better food is attacking the depression itself, directly. > The key thing, however, is for people to lose that attitude of 'go get a life doing things I think are healthy/fun and you'll be happy' because, basically, that's b.s. projection, Yes, I agree.
  - singular 14y ago
    Yeah, I guess I'm saying CBT (+ related, I find SBT[1] very effective myself) >>> lifestyle improvements. [1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_therapy
slurgfest 14y ago
The phrase "clinical depression" distinguishes depression (in the clinical, officially-diagnosed sense) from depression (in the informal, no-more-cookies-angst sense). If you want to know more about the technical meaning of "depression," consult DSM.