5 ms·

I am very concerned about global warming, but we need to find solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums, and that do not dispro

by frakrx 2y ago

I am very concerned about global warming, but we need to find solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums, and that do not disproportionately affect the poorer sections of society. And if the poor people have to make sacrifices, then other sections of society have to bear the burden too. The rich, but also the state bureaucracies that are only using the crisis to increase their size and spending.

nneonneo 2y ago
This does not work when there are parts of the political spectrum that won’t even believe there’s a problem, and which reject the scientific consensus out of hand, and which even threaten to defund the scientific research entirely.
- frakrx 2y ago
  Then science and education must adapt to the times and do better to educate and convey their message to a wider audience, everyone must do their part, including scientists and educators. If you exclude half the population from your plans before you even start, you will very probably fail.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Then propaganda and misinformation must adapt to prevent science and education from swaying that half of the population away from profitable fossil fuel extraction.
epistasis 2y ago
> we need to find solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. What you are delicately saying is that Republicans are children and somehow we must all change to coddle them and their snowflake beliefs. No, just no. We need accountability and responsibility. Every single Republican that is actually responsible needs to be holding their fellow Republicans to account for the lies they spread. I have tried every strategy under the sun with my family. When it comes to politics, they just want somebody to tell them they can act like children, which is what today's Republican part gives them.
- frakrx 2y ago
  I understand why you feel this way, but saying it is impossible is too defeatist. People arent horses and their beliefs can change. Isn't it worth the sacrifice to acknowledge the concerns and political views of the opposing side if it means a chance of saving planet earth? We should find common grounds and start a fresh dialogue about climate change. I'm sure there are opportunities to do so.
  - epistasis 2y ago
    > acknowledge the concerns and political views of the opposing side if it means a chance of saving planet earth How in the world will acknowledging their concerns save the planet? Pretending like they have not had their concerns acknowledged and listened to and addressed is also a bit condescending. I'm not defeatist, but you are definitely not understanding the situation. The common ground starts with truth, the common ground starts with Republicans being willing to acknowledge me as a human with beliefs too. There's a deep deep deep sickness in the information sphere of the Republican party that needs to be addressed. The Democratic party has sever information problems on its fringe. But the Republican information problem is coming from the top, from the very leaders that run everything.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  > No, just no. We need accountability and responsibility. Every single Republican that is actually responsible needs to be holding their fellow Republicans to account for the lies they spread. Let's say you're right. How do you plan to do that without "finding solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums"? How are you going to get some Republicans to hold other Republicans accountable if you haven't found a solution that includes that first subset of Republicans? I suppose you could aim for autocratic top down governmental control, but I think if you look around at the current state of the US government you might see some flaws with that plan. It's easy to be frustrated and angry and rant at people. It's easy to dismiss them and write them off as not worth the effort. But in the end, the question to have to ask yourself is whether it's more important to be right and that other people do things for the right reasons, or more important to accomplish your goal, and other people do the right things even if its not for the right reason.
sega_sai 2y ago
I think is a very good point and in my opinion one of the reasons for the backlash against green measures across the world. When people just survive, it is hard to justify to pay more for electricity to switch away from fossil fuels, or buy expensive heat pumps etc. I think the green switch should have been planned in such a way to protect poorer people.

by frakrx 2y ago

nneonneo 2y ago

This does not work when there are parts of the political spectrum that won’t even believe there’s a problem, and which reject the scientific consensus out of hand, and which even threaten to defund the scientific research entirely.

frakrx 2y ago
Then science and education must adapt to the times and do better to educate and convey their message to a wider audience, everyone must do their part, including scientists and educators. If you exclude half the population from your plans before you even start, you will very probably fail.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Then propaganda and misinformation must adapt to prevent science and education from swaying that half of the population away from profitable fossil fuel extraction.

epistasis 2y ago

> we need to find solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. What you are delicately saying is that Republicans are children and somehow we must all change to coddle them and their snowflake beliefs. No, just no. We need accountability and responsibility. Every single Republican that is actually responsible needs to be holding their fellow Republicans to account for the lies they spread. I have tried every strategy under the sun with my family. When it comes to politics, they just want somebody to tell them they can act like children, which is what today's Republican part gives them.

frakrx 2y ago
I understand why you feel this way, but saying it is impossible is too defeatist. People arent horses and their beliefs can change. Isn't it worth the sacrifice to acknowledge the concerns and political views of the opposing side if it means a chance of saving planet earth? We should find common grounds and start a fresh dialogue about climate change. I'm sure there are opportunities to do so.
- epistasis 2y ago
  > acknowledge the concerns and political views of the opposing side if it means a chance of saving planet earth How in the world will acknowledging their concerns save the planet? Pretending like they have not had their concerns acknowledged and listened to and addressed is also a bit condescending. I'm not defeatist, but you are definitely not understanding the situation. The common ground starts with truth, the common ground starts with Republicans being willing to acknowledge me as a human with beliefs too. There's a deep deep deep sickness in the information sphere of the Republican party that needs to be addressed. The Democratic party has sever information problems on its fringe. But the Republican information problem is coming from the top, from the very leaders that run everything.
tpmoney 2y ago
> No, just no. We need accountability and responsibility. Every single Republican that is actually responsible needs to be holding their fellow Republicans to account for the lies they spread. Let's say you're right. How do you plan to do that without "finding solutions and plans that can include everyone from all political spectrums"? How are you going to get some Republicans to hold other Republicans accountable if you haven't found a solution that includes that first subset of Republicans? I suppose you could aim for autocratic top down governmental control, but I think if you look around at the current state of the US government you might see some flaws with that plan. It's easy to be frustrated and angry and rant at people. It's easy to dismiss them and write them off as not worth the effort. But in the end, the question to have to ask yourself is whether it's more important to be right and that other people do things for the right reasons, or more important to accomplish your goal, and other people do the right things even if its not for the right reason.

sega_sai 2y ago

I think is a very good point and in my opinion one of the reasons for the backlash against green measures across the world. When people just survive, it is hard to justify to pay more for electricity to switch away from fossil fuels, or buy expensive heat pumps etc. I think the green switch should have been planned in such a way to protect poorer people.