4 ms·

Outside of his silly comments about marginalised people, it does genuinely seem a little strange that maintainers of the project view themselves as some sort of

Outside of his silly comments about marginalised people, it does genuinely seem a little strange that maintainers of the project view themselves as some sort of punisher-style police force.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
That’s sort of what the phrase has started to mean because of how it’s used by many American police officers. It has more reasonable historic meanings.
- zozbot234 2y ago
  The "historic" meaning directly references a military regiment standing their ground against the enemy (see "thin red line"). This particular quote has always evinced a highly adversarial attitude.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    So? The problem with the police using it for its historic meaning is that they are ostensibly not a military force but they act like one; using the phrase makes it almost explicit. Why is it bad if these open source maintainers use it, presuming they meant this “hold the battle line” meaning?
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      It probably wouldn't be bad (or at least as bad) if they used the original which isn't tied to the politics of policing. The “thin red line” inspired the “thin blue line”, but they are distinct sayings with different denotation and connotation.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
        > tied to the politics of policing Another commenter makes good points contrary to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058238 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058238 Not that it is incorrect to say that the phrase is tied to policing, just that it is similarly not-incorrect to say it is not tied to policing. It is context-dependent. It’s not so obvious that this particular use of that phrase is at all related to police work.
lolinder 2y ago
The context that's missing for a lot of the left leaning people hearing this is that much of the population of the US still sees police officers as heroes worthy of emulation. The thin blue line between order and chaos is a powerful image for a lot of people, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a punisher style police force.
- timeon 2y ago
  Interesting perspective. Where I live we appreciate police but we do not see them as line that holds society from chaos. Is US this fragile?
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Not really, but there's a long history of media that puts police on a pedestal in a fight against darkness. The more cynical would call it propaganda, but I think there's more to it than that: it dates back to old westerns and draws from a rich history of hero literature. The police became a subject of that pre-existing tradition.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    The US is quite violent by developed world standards, and it borders Latin America, which is insanely violent even by poor world standards. IIRC, of the 50 most violent cities in the world, 17 are in Mexico. This means that a lot more people who have seen grisly things (beheadings by cartels etc.) are present in the US, and this raises the awareness about what could also happen in the absence of a police force.

Outside of his silly comments about marginalised people, it does genuinely seem a little strange that maintainers of the project view themselves as some sort of punisher-style police force.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago

That’s sort of what the phrase has started to mean because of how it’s used by many American police officers. It has more reasonable historic meanings.

zozbot234 2y ago
The "historic" meaning directly references a military regiment standing their ground against the enemy (see "thin red line"). This particular quote has always evinced a highly adversarial attitude.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  So? The problem with the police using it for its historic meaning is that they are ostensibly not a military force but they act like one; using the phrase makes it almost explicit. Why is it bad if these open source maintainers use it, presuming they meant this “hold the battle line” meaning?
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    It probably wouldn't be bad (or at least as bad) if they used the original which isn't tied to the politics of policing. The “thin red line” inspired the “thin blue line”, but they are distinct sayings with different denotation and connotation.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
      > tied to the politics of policing Another commenter makes good points contrary to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058238 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43058238 Not that it is incorrect to say that the phrase is tied to policing, just that it is similarly not-incorrect to say it is not tied to policing. It is context-dependent. It’s not so obvious that this particular use of that phrase is at all related to police work.

lolinder 2y ago

The context that's missing for a lot of the left leaning people hearing this is that much of the population of the US still sees police officers as heroes worthy of emulation. The thin blue line between order and chaos is a powerful image for a lot of people, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being a punisher style police force.

timeon 2y ago
Interesting perspective. Where I live we appreciate police but we do not see them as line that holds society from chaos. Is US this fragile?
- lolinder 2y ago
  Not really, but there's a long history of media that puts police on a pedestal in a fight against darkness. The more cynical would call it propaganda, but I think there's more to it than that: it dates back to old westerns and draws from a rich history of hero literature. The police became a subject of that pre-existing tradition.
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  The US is quite violent by developed world standards, and it borders Latin America, which is insanely violent even by poor world standards. IIRC, of the 50 most violent cities in the world, 17 are in Mexico. This means that a lot more people who have seen grisly things (beheadings by cartels etc.) are present in the US, and this raises the awareness about what could also happen in the absence of a police force.