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> Someone could implement virtio-cuda (there are PoCs on github [1][2] Any company (let alone Fly) doing this won't go against Nvidia Enterprise T&C? > how to

> Someone could implement virtio-cuda (there are PoCs on github [1][2] Any company (let alone Fly) doing this won't go against Nvidia Enterprise T&C? > how to reuse Nvidia's proprietary GPGPU emulation code from QEMU If it has been contributed to QEMU, it isn't GPL/LGPL? > Could an emulated vGPGPU be hotplugged after VM launch gVisor instead bounces ioctls back and forth between "guest" and host. Sounds like a nice, lightweight (even if limited & sandbox-busting) approach, too. Unsure if it mitigates the need for the "licensing dance" tptacek mentioned above, but I reckon the security posture of such a setup is unacceptable for Fly. https://gvisor.dev/docs/user_guide/gpu/ https://gvisor.dev/docs/user_guide/gpu/ > would also advance the state of the art in security isolation and access control of emulated devices used by VMs I hope I'm not talking to DeepSeek / DeepResearch (:

transpute 2y ago
> Any company (let alone Fly) doing this won't go against Nvidia Enterprise T&C? Good question for a lawyer. Even more reason (beyond maintenance cost) that it would be best done by Nvidia. qCUDA paper has a couple dozen references on API remoting research, https://www.cs.nthu.edu.tw/~ychung/conference/2019-CloudCom.pdf https://www.cs.nthu.edu.tw/~ychung/conference/2019-CloudCom.... > If it has been contributed to QEMU, it isn't GPL/LGPL? Not contributed, but integrated with QEMU by commercial licensees. Since the GPGPU emulation code isn't public, presumably it's a binary blob. > I hope I'm not talking to DeepSeek / DeepResearch (: Will take that as a compliment :) Not yet tried DS/DR.
- bonzini 2y ago
  NVIDIA support is not special as far as QEMU is concerned—the special parts are all in their proprietary device driver, and they talk to QEMU via the VFIO infrastructure for userspace drivers. They just reimplemented the same thing in Cloud Hypervisor. Red Hat for one doesn't ship any functionality that isn't available upstream, much less proprietary, and they have large customers using virtual GPU.
  - transpute 2y ago
    > NVIDIA.. just reimplemented the same thing in Cloud Hypervisor. Was that recent, with MIG support for GPGPU partitioning? Is there a public mailing list thread or patch series for that work? Nvidia has a 90-page deployment doc on vCS ("virtual compute server") for RedHat KVM, https://images.nvidia.com/content/Solutions/data-center/deployment-guide-virtual-compute-server-rhel-kvm.pdf https://images.nvidia.com/content/Solutions/data-center/depl...
    - bonzini 2y ago
      Not NVIDIA; fly.io reimplemented the parts that CH didn't already have. I know that CH is developed on GitHub but I don't know whether the changes are public or in-house. That said, the slowness of QEMU's startup is always exaggerated. Whatever they did with CH they could have done with QEMU.
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transpute 2y ago

> Any company (let alone Fly) doing this won't go against Nvidia Enterprise T&C? Good question for a lawyer. Even more reason (beyond maintenance cost) that it would be best done by Nvidia. qCUDA paper has a couple dozen references on API remoting research, https://www.cs.nthu.edu.tw/~ychung/conference/2019-CloudCom.pdf https://www.cs.nthu.edu.tw/~ychung/conference/2019-CloudCom.... > If it has been contributed to QEMU, it isn't GPL/LGPL? Not contributed, but integrated with QEMU by commercial licensees. Since the GPGPU emulation code isn't public, presumably it's a binary blob. > I hope I'm not talking to DeepSeek / DeepResearch (: Will take that as a compliment :) Not yet tried DS/DR.

bonzini 2y ago
NVIDIA support is not special as far as QEMU is concerned—the special parts are all in their proprietary device driver, and they talk to QEMU via the VFIO infrastructure for userspace drivers. They just reimplemented the same thing in Cloud Hypervisor. Red Hat for one doesn't ship any functionality that isn't available upstream, much less proprietary, and they have large customers using virtual GPU.
- transpute 2y ago
  > NVIDIA.. just reimplemented the same thing in Cloud Hypervisor. Was that recent, with MIG support for GPGPU partitioning? Is there a public mailing list thread or patch series for that work? Nvidia has a 90-page deployment doc on vCS ("virtual compute server") for RedHat KVM, https://images.nvidia.com/content/Solutions/data-center/deployment-guide-virtual-compute-server-rhel-kvm.pdf https://images.nvidia.com/content/Solutions/data-center/depl...
  - bonzini 2y ago
    Not NVIDIA; fly.io reimplemented the parts that CH didn't already have. I know that CH is developed on GitHub but I don't know whether the changes are public or in-house. That said, the slowness of QEMU's startup is always exaggerated. Whatever they did with CH they could have done with QEMU.

deleted 2y ago

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