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Not that it's available for me yet, but what are they selling? Can I transfer the books to a device of my choice *, or are they DRM encumbered and always onlin

Not that it's available for me yet, but what are they selling? Can I transfer the books to a device of my choice *, or are they DRM encumbered and always online? * we read on a Kindle and an iPad in my house. For as long as the Kindle supports local uploading of books via Calibre, at least.

lazyasciiart 2y ago
The FAQ says no kindle reading, but an android and iOS app for now, and many (most?) books will be DRM restricted but doesn’t mention requiring online. https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ
- nottorp 2y ago
  > Due to Amazon's proprietary digital rights management software (DRM) and publishers' DRM requirements, it’s not currently possible to buy ebooks from Bookshop.org or local bookstores and read them on your Kindle. Eh it's very possible for DRM free ebooks with Calibre.
  - bluebarbet 2y ago
    But a laborious multi-step process that few ordinary people are ready to attempt.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      For DRM free it's open in Calibre, click send to device while the Kindle is connected. Not much difference from opening a Word document? For DRM encumbered I don't know but I assume it's significantly more complex indeed.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Not really. You can email them to your Kindle address and it will convert them for you if needed (like with epub). No calibre needed.
      - technothrasher 2y ago
        This is my usual workflow. Find or buy the non-DRM epub version of a book, send it to <my_username>@kindle.com, click on the 'verify upload' email I get, and it then shows up on my Kindle ready to read. I do add the book to my Calibre library and have it send the email for me, but that's an extra step that isn't required. You could absolutely have a bookstore that could send the email for you when you buy the book, if they're willing to be DRM free.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        You don't have to verify the upload if you whitelist your email address. Then it just goes straight through. Also, the epub conversion worked for years before Amazon officially supported it! You just had to rename the .epub to .png and then it would convert it. Very weird, they probably had some kind of block on .epub .
        nottorp 2y ago
        I suppose a problem with that is that now Amazon knows what else you're reading. Tbh the Calibre step doesn't mean much to me, since I can plug in the Kindle, stuff it with a few books and leave it there charging. Then when I feel like reading I have the books ready and full battery.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        They do, but they probably do anyway since they control everything that is Kindle. If you don't want Amazon to know what you're reading, don't buy a kindle. And the good thing about it is that you do have the page sync. Even with uploaded files. But yeah I'm looking to move to another ecosystem too. I'm not a big fan of calibre though, it's such a messy application. Very bad UX, so 2010s. I use it when I need it (conversion) but I wouldn't use it as my book library. I'm looking for a new ereader ecosystem though. Ideally something where I can run the sync server myself. And readers with page turn buttons. I'm not really convinced of Kobo now that they only sell the colour Libra which has really poor contrast (so you always need the backlight). I really regret not buying a Libra 2 when they were still around.
  - criddell 2y ago
    As long as they don’t use KFX (or whatever the name of the latest Kindle DRM is). There are some workarounds, but none of them are reliable and you often lose some of the typography improvements in KFX files. This is an area where regulators should step in. DRM should either be banned on books (do we really want to lock up knowledge) or it should be standardized so that you can read any book on any device, like how you could play just about any DVD on any player. The current system gives Amazon too much power.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      But we're not talking about getting books bought from Amazon off a Kindle here. We're talking about getting books bought from not-Amazon on a Kindle to read them.
      - criddell 2y ago
        Then you are often in an even worse spot. If you buy a book from Apple Books, there’s no way (as far I know) to remove the DRM. Same goes for books bought from other sellers that use Adobe’s OpenFile DRM (at least the current version of OpenFile). Or were you not talking about DRM-encumbered books? I didn’t really consider those because very few are available commercially. Books from the publisher Tor is one notable example, but there aren’t many others.
        nottorp 2y ago
        My subscription to Asimov's has been DRM free for a while. Interesting story though. First they were on the Kindle store, and I was a subscriber by convenience. Then when Amazon stopped handling individual subscriptions they moved to some solution similar to this one, requiring an app - which I ignored. Later they finally switched to letting you download drm-free epubs from their site. Suddenly I'm a subscriber again :)
        notpushkin 2y ago
        DRM on books really doesn't make a lot of sense to me – it’s way too easy to remove.
NoboruWataya 2y ago
It seems many of them, at least, will be DRM'd. The big question IMO is what DRM they will use, as some is pretty easy to strip using Calibre whereas other DRM is more difficult or perhaps even (currently) impossible.
_cenw 2y ago
I hate that it's still more convenient to get an unencumbered copy from a shadow library, even after actually paying for a book.

lazyasciiart 2y ago

The FAQ says no kindle reading, but an android and iOS app for now, and many (most?) books will be DRM restricted but doesn’t mention requiring online. https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ

nottorp 2y ago
> Due to Amazon's proprietary digital rights management software (DRM) and publishers' DRM requirements, it’s not currently possible to buy ebooks from Bookshop.org or local bookstores and read them on your Kindle. Eh it's very possible for DRM free ebooks with Calibre.
- bluebarbet 2y ago
  But a laborious multi-step process that few ordinary people are ready to attempt.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    For DRM free it's open in Calibre, click send to device while the Kindle is connected. Not much difference from opening a Word document? For DRM encumbered I don't know but I assume it's significantly more complex indeed.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Not really. You can email them to your Kindle address and it will convert them for you if needed (like with epub). No calibre needed.
    - technothrasher 2y ago
      This is my usual workflow. Find or buy the non-DRM epub version of a book, send it to <my_username>@kindle.com, click on the 'verify upload' email I get, and it then shows up on my Kindle ready to read. I do add the book to my Calibre library and have it send the email for me, but that's an extra step that isn't required. You could absolutely have a bookstore that could send the email for you when you buy the book, if they're willing to be DRM free.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        You don't have to verify the upload if you whitelist your email address. Then it just goes straight through. Also, the epub conversion worked for years before Amazon officially supported it! You just had to rename the .epub to .png and then it would convert it. Very weird, they probably had some kind of block on .epub .
      - nottorp 2y ago
        I suppose a problem with that is that now Amazon knows what else you're reading. Tbh the Calibre step doesn't mean much to me, since I can plug in the Kindle, stuff it with a few books and leave it there charging. Then when I feel like reading I have the books ready and full battery.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        They do, but they probably do anyway since they control everything that is Kindle. If you don't want Amazon to know what you're reading, don't buy a kindle. And the good thing about it is that you do have the page sync. Even with uploaded files. But yeah I'm looking to move to another ecosystem too. I'm not a big fan of calibre though, it's such a messy application. Very bad UX, so 2010s. I use it when I need it (conversion) but I wouldn't use it as my book library. I'm looking for a new ereader ecosystem though. Ideally something where I can run the sync server myself. And readers with page turn buttons. I'm not really convinced of Kobo now that they only sell the colour Libra which has really poor contrast (so you always need the backlight). I really regret not buying a Libra 2 when they were still around.
- criddell 2y ago
  As long as they don’t use KFX (or whatever the name of the latest Kindle DRM is). There are some workarounds, but none of them are reliable and you often lose some of the typography improvements in KFX files. This is an area where regulators should step in. DRM should either be banned on books (do we really want to lock up knowledge) or it should be standardized so that you can read any book on any device, like how you could play just about any DVD on any player. The current system gives Amazon too much power.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    But we're not talking about getting books bought from Amazon off a Kindle here. We're talking about getting books bought from not-Amazon on a Kindle to read them.
    - criddell 2y ago
      Then you are often in an even worse spot. If you buy a book from Apple Books, there’s no way (as far I know) to remove the DRM. Same goes for books bought from other sellers that use Adobe’s OpenFile DRM (at least the current version of OpenFile). Or were you not talking about DRM-encumbered books? I didn’t really consider those because very few are available commercially. Books from the publisher Tor is one notable example, but there aren’t many others.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        My subscription to Asimov's has been DRM free for a while. Interesting story though. First they were on the Kindle store, and I was a subscriber by convenience. Then when Amazon stopped handling individual subscriptions they moved to some solution similar to this one, requiring an app - which I ignored. Later they finally switched to letting you download drm-free epubs from their site. Suddenly I'm a subscriber again :)
      - notpushkin 2y ago
        DRM on books really doesn't make a lot of sense to me – it’s way too easy to remove.

NoboruWataya 2y ago

It seems many of them, at least, will be DRM'd. The big question IMO is what DRM they will use, as some is pretty easy to strip using Calibre whereas other DRM is more difficult or perhaps even (currently) impossible.

_cenw 2y ago

I hate that it's still more convenient to get an unencumbered copy from a shadow library, even after actually paying for a book.