4 ms·

Bookshop.org just launched, US-only initially, with 3 million titles; they pay affiliates 30% commission, whereas Amazon apparently pays Kindle affiliates 5-10%

by smcin 2y ago

Bookshop.org just launched, US-only initially, with 3 million titles; they pay affiliates 30% commission, whereas Amazon apparently pays Kindle affiliates 5-10% commission (+ bounties for SM campaigns, which is getting annoyingly overdone). One way we can boost Bookshop.org is anytime we cite a book to use their URL instead of Amazon's URL. So here's "Nineteen Eighty Four" https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orwell/18316715 https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orw... Yes they should add a filter for DRM-free, or allow setting it as your default. From TheVerge article: *"The app... has a unique social feature: “We’ll allow anybody to share any quote from any ebook to social media, and then people who are on social can click through, buy the ebook, and start reading it on their phone immediately.”"

bwb 2y ago
They pay affiliates 10%, it is only indie bookstores who get 30%.
- smcin 2y ago
  Ok. I misrecollected the articles by TheVerge + others said: "Bookshop’s deal is the same for ebooks and physical books — the store gets 30 percent of the list price." (and doesn't mention affiliates but other articles do) Suggest you should drop your comment on that article, it's potentially misleading. https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks
  - bwb 2y ago
    No worries, mainstream media goes fast, and they rarely fix errors (they might have even had AI write most of this to get the clicks).
    - rafram 2y ago
      The Verge story was entirely accurate - GP misread it. And The Verge isn’t AI slop.
      - smcin 2y ago
        The Verge article was incomplete and misleading because it says nothing about affiliates (doesn't even mention the word) and says the bookstore always gets all the profit from any referral. And in fact it says "The Bookshop model is a simple one: when you use the website, you pick a store you’d like to support, and when you buy a book that store gets all the profit... For bookstores, the deal is exactly the same: you choose your store, the store can share recommendations and lists, and it gets the money every time you buy something. " Even if the link you followed came from a social media affiliate, not directly from the bookshop? Very unclear. I quoted from a second article (can't find the link now) which actually states the commissions. (So if a bookstore make a sales from a link that came in via an affiliate, does the affiliate get 10% plus the bookstore gets 30%?)
        rafram 2y ago
        > The Verge article was incomplete and misleading because it says nothing about affiliates (doesn't even mention the word) and says the bookstore always gets all the profit from any referral. It also doesn’t mention whether they take UnionPay or how easy it is to park outside their office, so yeah, if it’s trying to be a compendium of human knowledge related to the website Bookshop.org, I guess it is pretty incomplete. Possible that it isn’t, though. Affiliate links are to Bookshop’s main site, not one of their cobranded bookstore storefronts. When you buy from the main site, the affiliate who linked you there gets 10% and bookstores and Bookshop split the rest, as they always do. When you buy from a bookstore storefront, the store gets 30% directly. As far as I can tell, there are no affiliate links to bookstore storefronts, so your question isn’t applicable.
        smcin 2y ago
        Don't be abrasive. It neglects mentioning the commission structure which other recent articles do mention, and actually is important - Amazon is currently pushing affiliate commission on e-books a lot, YT is awash with spammy ads for orgs selling "become a lifestyle e-publisher"; yet I've still never seen a single ad or even non-ad promotion anywhere online for Bookshop.org - even though I've been asked my (disappearing) local indie brick-and-mortar stores since before 2020 when they were going to get it together to challenge the incumbent. As much as we want Bookshop.org to succeed, they'll have to start articulating to the general public a) that they exist, and b) the reasons for choosing them then c) making it easy to buy from them. Years before Covid I asked my bookstores if they were ever going to get around to an integrated gift card, and they missed the boat on that in 2020. > Affiliate links are to Bookshop’s main site, not one of their cobranded bookstore storefronts... As far as I can tell, there are no affiliate links to bookstore storefronts, so your question isn’t applicable. So, seems to mean the app's supposed big feature promoted above allowing "sharing any quote to SM as an affiliate link" cannot go to a cobranded indie bookstore? Then I can't see the indie bookstores themselves wanting to use it much. As I say this last week's news was the main indie bookstore chain in the SF Bay Area with 11 locations filed for bankruptcy and closed its Berkeley location, but the other 10 remain open. [https://booksinc.net/our-statement-regarding-filing-voluntary-chapter-11-reorganization https://booksinc.net/our-statement-regarding-filing-voluntar...] Anyway I hope they do well but they have a battle to fight.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  isn't the point to support indie bookstores? what are "affiliates" in this case? there aren't any bookstore chains in the US other than B&N and Amazon of course
  - smcin 2y ago
    I think "affiliates" means "any person/org promoting it in a social media campaign". (similar to "Amazon affiliate link")
    - beanjuiceII 2y ago
      so like skimmers?
      - smcin 2y ago
        Affilate link fraud? No idea. Maybe they should be flattered if scammers think they have enough affiliate revenue to even make affiliate fraud worthwhile.
  - bwb 2y ago
    Affiliates = websites/apps trying to help readers/authors in different ways while trying to make enough to pay for infrastructure / time-to-build. For example, I run Shepherd.com, and I try to help readers find books they don't know about in fun ways while helping new authors get their first readers. Or book websites that try to create questions for book clubs to use when discussing books. Fun fact: The real affiliate rate is only half what they publish, as the sales get scrubbed due to the chaotic nature of cookies/affiliate tracking. So Amazon pays around 2% for book sales, and bookshop.org pays 5% (if not less at Amazon since they only compensate you if the sale happens in the first 24 hours). This is why it is impossible for any book websites to fund themselves without direct funding from readers/authors at this point.
    - jeffgreco 2y ago
      Thank you for Shepherd, it’s a tremendous resource for finding something to read.
Citizen_Lame 2y ago
$15.99 for 1984? Lol, talk about over priced. In UK and EU book is already in public domain.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- smcin 2y ago
  The price was irrelevant, it was just to illustrate that we can send linklove to Bookshop.org instead of Amazon. Instead of complaining about the choice, why not post a better link to a book at Bookshop.org? e.g. "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century", Timothy Snyder https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-the-twentieth-century-timothy-snyder/16520165 https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-... Or what's your chosen link?
beberlei 2y ago
We have something similar in Central Europe, covering Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Benelux and Italy for many years now. The tolino https://mytolino.com/ https://mytolino.com/ works similar that bookstores get a cut of the sales.
- mmooss 2y ago
  Is that a device? An application? A library? I ask because it looks like the former.
  - tweetle_beetle 2y ago
    It's all of the above: hardware, software and e-commerce.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> One way we can boost Bookshop.org is anytime we cite a book to use their URL instead of Amazon's URL. There have been various efforts in the past to avoid citing Amazon that way. I thought it was a good idea, but I ran into an odd problem - publishers tend not to have pages for their books at all.
- mmooss 2y ago
  As another experience: No book I've looked for lacked a publisher's page.
- smcin 2y ago
  Ok then email both Bookshop.org + the publisher citing the specific book. If they now have a bigger agreement that should not happen (for new books). For old/ second-hand, sure.
nosioptar 2y ago
Meh, I've got no reason to promote bookshop over amazon when they're both filled with DRM. I'd rather cite books with a worldcat link.
- smcin 2y ago
  Yes I don't like that they don't at least have a no-DRM filter. But you have to expect that publishers with DRM make more sales at higher margins.

by smcin 2y ago

bwb 2y ago

They pay affiliates 10%, it is only indie bookstores who get 30%.

smcin 2y ago
Ok. I misrecollected the articles by TheVerge + others said: "Bookshop’s deal is the same for ebooks and physical books — the store gets 30 percent of the list price." (and doesn't mention affiliates but other articles do) Suggest you should drop your comment on that article, it's potentially misleading. https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks
- bwb 2y ago
  No worries, mainstream media goes fast, and they rarely fix errors (they might have even had AI write most of this to get the clicks).
  - rafram 2y ago
    The Verge story was entirely accurate - GP misread it. And The Verge isn’t AI slop.
    - smcin 2y ago
      The Verge article was incomplete and misleading because it says nothing about affiliates (doesn't even mention the word) and says the bookstore always gets all the profit from any referral. And in fact it says "The Bookshop model is a simple one: when you use the website, you pick a store you’d like to support, and when you buy a book that store gets all the profit... For bookstores, the deal is exactly the same: you choose your store, the store can share recommendations and lists, and it gets the money every time you buy something. " Even if the link you followed came from a social media affiliate, not directly from the bookshop? Very unclear. I quoted from a second article (can't find the link now) which actually states the commissions. (So if a bookstore make a sales from a link that came in via an affiliate, does the affiliate get 10% plus the bookstore gets 30%?)
      - rafram 2y ago
        > The Verge article was incomplete and misleading because it says nothing about affiliates (doesn't even mention the word) and says the bookstore always gets all the profit from any referral. It also doesn’t mention whether they take UnionPay or how easy it is to park outside their office, so yeah, if it’s trying to be a compendium of human knowledge related to the website Bookshop.org, I guess it is pretty incomplete. Possible that it isn’t, though. Affiliate links are to Bookshop’s main site, not one of their cobranded bookstore storefronts. When you buy from the main site, the affiliate who linked you there gets 10% and bookstores and Bookshop split the rest, as they always do. When you buy from a bookstore storefront, the store gets 30% directly. As far as I can tell, there are no affiliate links to bookstore storefronts, so your question isn’t applicable.
        smcin 2y ago
        Don't be abrasive. It neglects mentioning the commission structure which other recent articles do mention, and actually is important - Amazon is currently pushing affiliate commission on e-books a lot, YT is awash with spammy ads for orgs selling "become a lifestyle e-publisher"; yet I've still never seen a single ad or even non-ad promotion anywhere online for Bookshop.org - even though I've been asked my (disappearing) local indie brick-and-mortar stores since before 2020 when they were going to get it together to challenge the incumbent. As much as we want Bookshop.org to succeed, they'll have to start articulating to the general public a) that they exist, and b) the reasons for choosing them then c) making it easy to buy from them. Years before Covid I asked my bookstores if they were ever going to get around to an integrated gift card, and they missed the boat on that in 2020. > Affiliate links are to Bookshop’s main site, not one of their cobranded bookstore storefronts... As far as I can tell, there are no affiliate links to bookstore storefronts, so your question isn’t applicable. So, seems to mean the app's supposed big feature promoted above allowing "sharing any quote to SM as an affiliate link" cannot go to a cobranded indie bookstore? Then I can't see the indie bookstores themselves wanting to use it much. As I say this last week's news was the main indie bookstore chain in the SF Bay Area with 11 locations filed for bankruptcy and closed its Berkeley location, but the other 10 remain open. [https://booksinc.net/our-statement-regarding-filing-voluntary-chapter-11-reorganization https://booksinc.net/our-statement-regarding-filing-voluntar...] Anyway I hope they do well but they have a battle to fight.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
isn't the point to support indie bookstores? what are "affiliates" in this case? there aren't any bookstore chains in the US other than B&N and Amazon of course
- smcin 2y ago
  I think "affiliates" means "any person/org promoting it in a social media campaign". (similar to "Amazon affiliate link")
  - beanjuiceII 2y ago
    so like skimmers?
    - smcin 2y ago
      Affilate link fraud? No idea. Maybe they should be flattered if scammers think they have enough affiliate revenue to even make affiliate fraud worthwhile.
- bwb 2y ago
  Affiliates = websites/apps trying to help readers/authors in different ways while trying to make enough to pay for infrastructure / time-to-build. For example, I run Shepherd.com, and I try to help readers find books they don't know about in fun ways while helping new authors get their first readers. Or book websites that try to create questions for book clubs to use when discussing books. Fun fact: The real affiliate rate is only half what they publish, as the sales get scrubbed due to the chaotic nature of cookies/affiliate tracking. So Amazon pays around 2% for book sales, and bookshop.org pays 5% (if not less at Amazon since they only compensate you if the sale happens in the first 24 hours). This is why it is impossible for any book websites to fund themselves without direct funding from readers/authors at this point.
  - jeffgreco 2y ago
    Thank you for Shepherd, it’s a tremendous resource for finding something to read.

Citizen_Lame 2y ago

$15.99 for 1984? Lol, talk about over priced. In UK and EU book is already in public domain.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
smcin 2y ago
The price was irrelevant, it was just to illustrate that we can send linklove to Bookshop.org instead of Amazon. Instead of complaining about the choice, why not post a better link to a book at Bookshop.org? e.g. "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century", Timothy Snyder https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-the-twentieth-century-timothy-snyder/16520165 https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-tyranny-twenty-lessons-from-... Or what's your chosen link?

beberlei 2y ago

We have something similar in Central Europe, covering Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Benelux and Italy for many years now. The tolino https://mytolino.com/ https://mytolino.com/ works similar that bookstores get a cut of the sales.

mmooss 2y ago
Is that a device? An application? A library? I ask because it looks like the former.
- tweetle_beetle 2y ago
  It's all of the above: hardware, software and e-commerce.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> One way we can boost Bookshop.org is anytime we cite a book to use their URL instead of Amazon's URL. There have been various efforts in the past to avoid citing Amazon that way. I thought it was a good idea, but I ran into an odd problem - publishers tend not to have pages for their books at all.

mmooss 2y ago
As another experience: No book I've looked for lacked a publisher's page.
smcin 2y ago
Ok then email both Bookshop.org + the publisher citing the specific book. If they now have a bigger agreement that should not happen (for new books). For old/ second-hand, sure.

nosioptar 2y ago

Meh, I've got no reason to promote bookshop over amazon when they're both filled with DRM. I'd rather cite books with a worldcat link.

smcin 2y ago
Yes I don't like that they don't at least have a no-DRM filter. But you have to expect that publishers with DRM make more sales at higher margins.