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I have small kids and I'm very happy to live in Norway. If I did not have a family I'd consider - moving over to my cousin in Canada to make twice as much as

I have small kids and I'm very happy to live in Norway. If I did not have a family I'd consider - moving over to my cousin in Canada to make twice as much as I do now - or to Ukraine to help rebuild and also take advantage of what I see as an almost inevitable economic boom as soon as russia collapses

TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
Oh yes? What glee you appear to exhibit at the thought of 150 odd million people being thrown in to turmoil. As if that’s going to be a good thing for Europe. Or anyone for that matter. Russia accounts for something like one third of global fertiliser production. And, I mean, I can think of nothing better than a massive power vacuum in a state that has the most nuclear weapons in the world. Wile party, if you can get an invite. I suppose. Imagine if, like, your opinion was wrong, or, let’s say, there turns out to be unintended consequences to the outcome you desire. Because there always is. The road to hell and all of that. Then what?
- watwut 2y ago
  Europe needs Russia to collapse just like they needed nazi to collapse. Noncollapsed Russia will start wars. Non collapsed Russia is actively trying to destroy democracies in Europe even as they did not sent troops yet.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    Russia collapses and then what? A hot war between The Axis of China and NATO Co. & Sons? Trump & Xi Jinping divi up the lands and build The Great Wall of Russia. Fun to watch from afar, maybe. War is good for profit.
    - watwut 2y ago
      Russia does not collapse, Trump and Russia dividing Ukraine. Then Russia expanding further.taking over Hungary and Slovakia who will give up instantly. Then Russia attacking Poland, Czech Republic, Austria, German and Europe having war in home. There is about zero good future with non collapsed Russia who is in addition supported by USA. Russia will expand, until it collapses. And there will always be a war where they want to go next.
- skinkestek 2y ago
  > Oh yes? What glee you appear to exhibit at the thought of 150 odd million people being thrown in to turmoil. Please specify exactly where this glee is supposed to be apparent. I was originally only saying that I think there is going to be a big economic upswing in Ukraine when russia collapses. But since you seem interested: As for russia, that is just sad. I'm one of those who used to study russian back when the iron curtain fell. But in the choice between: - russia inevitably collapsing and utterly destroying other countries along with it - and russia inevitably collapsing and only for a limited time damaging other countries in the process I take the last one. Edit: As for the nuclear weapons, we can probably make a new Budapest Memorandum and russia can give the nuclear warheads to China as payments. It worked so well with Ukraine. Can't see any problems with that /s
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    > take advantage of what I see as an almost inevitable economic boom as soon as russia collapses I read that as something you’re looking forward to. Happy to be corrected.
    - skinkestek 2y ago
      Late but it is not something I look forward to. I probably have more Russian friends and ex-colleagues than most people, although that doesn't prevent me from being extremely clear about the situation being caused by russia. I'd much rather take advantage of Russia stabilizing and becoming a major trade partner to Europe. That was my original motivation for trying to learn Russian 20-30 years ago. (Trying to understand where the misunderstanding come from and I am starting to wonder if I misuse the expression "take advantage of". I've always thought there was a difference between "taking advantage of <someone>" which I thought was always bad and "taking advantage of <something>" which I thought could be good or bad depending on the situation. If I have misunderstood, then apologies for the confusion.
      - 2y ago
- pllbnk 2y ago
  In the name of security of Europe. Russia collapsing won't mean the land disappears with its resources. It means more opportunity and happiness.
- tim333 2y ago
  >russia collapses... Then what? Ideally they could get a normal government rather than the current murderous dictatorship.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    State collapse followed by improvement in quality of life? I can think of maybe three examples in living memory versus, what, three hundred that didn’t work out so well.
watwut 2y ago
Trump will sell Ukraine to Russia. They won't be collapsing, they just got new support.
- skinkestek 2y ago
  But finally Europe is waking up. Largest mainstream newspaper in Norway had an article this morning that some of our politicians want to increase our support to many times what it is today. Four unlikely allies want to increase. The two traditionally largest parties are on the fence and only one large party was clearly against increasing it as far as I saw and remember. More interestingly a poll there indicated broad support (slightly above 80% at the time I read it) from readers that we should increase our support significantly. As I mentioned our two largest traditionally parties are on the fence, but I guess they will land were the majority of the voters are. And to be clear: our current level of support has broad support from every party represented.
  - watwut 2y ago
    I hope you are right, but there are also growing right wing movements and countries with pro-russian governments. I dislike those governments and all that, but they will make it harder for the good parts of Europe to remain good. The other issue is that if US supports Russia, the Europe has no chance. And Trump will be actively working on destroying Europe too - both economically and politically. Not because of Russia, but because that is wining for him and because he was successful at that his whole life.
zenlot 2y ago
Kids still with you or with government already?
- skinkestek 2y ago
  With me. I belong to subgroup that people like to pick on. I mean I lost two good gigs already thanks to media attacks. Still no problems with that yet, not for me nor for any of my friends in the same situation. It certainly helps that we are friendly people who go out of our way to help others so anyone who knows us personally doesn't attack us and it probably also helps that our kids are doing well in school and we do well in the workplace. But I cannot shake the feeling that I can't be sure if we will continue to be safe. We have many friends, yes, but wave after wave of attacks in media does make me wonder.

TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago

Oh yes? What glee you appear to exhibit at the thought of 150 odd million people being thrown in to turmoil. As if that’s going to be a good thing for Europe. Or anyone for that matter. Russia accounts for something like one third of global fertiliser production. And, I mean, I can think of nothing better than a massive power vacuum in a state that has the most nuclear weapons in the world. Wile party, if you can get an invite. I suppose. Imagine if, like, your opinion was wrong, or, let’s say, there turns out to be unintended consequences to the outcome you desire. Because there always is. The road to hell and all of that. Then what?

watwut 2y ago
Europe needs Russia to collapse just like they needed nazi to collapse. Noncollapsed Russia will start wars. Non collapsed Russia is actively trying to destroy democracies in Europe even as they did not sent troops yet.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  Russia collapses and then what? A hot war between The Axis of China and NATO Co. & Sons? Trump & Xi Jinping divi up the lands and build The Great Wall of Russia. Fun to watch from afar, maybe. War is good for profit.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Russia does not collapse, Trump and Russia dividing Ukraine. Then Russia expanding further.taking over Hungary and Slovakia who will give up instantly. Then Russia attacking Poland, Czech Republic, Austria, German and Europe having war in home. There is about zero good future with non collapsed Russia who is in addition supported by USA. Russia will expand, until it collapses. And there will always be a war where they want to go next.
skinkestek 2y ago
> Oh yes? What glee you appear to exhibit at the thought of 150 odd million people being thrown in to turmoil. Please specify exactly where this glee is supposed to be apparent. I was originally only saying that I think there is going to be a big economic upswing in Ukraine when russia collapses. But since you seem interested: As for russia, that is just sad. I'm one of those who used to study russian back when the iron curtain fell. But in the choice between: - russia inevitably collapsing and utterly destroying other countries along with it - and russia inevitably collapsing and only for a limited time damaging other countries in the process I take the last one. Edit: As for the nuclear weapons, we can probably make a new Budapest Memorandum and russia can give the nuclear warheads to China as payments. It worked so well with Ukraine. Can't see any problems with that /s
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  > take advantage of what I see as an almost inevitable economic boom as soon as russia collapses I read that as something you’re looking forward to. Happy to be corrected.
  - skinkestek 2y ago
    Late but it is not something I look forward to. I probably have more Russian friends and ex-colleagues than most people, although that doesn't prevent me from being extremely clear about the situation being caused by russia. I'd much rather take advantage of Russia stabilizing and becoming a major trade partner to Europe. That was my original motivation for trying to learn Russian 20-30 years ago. (Trying to understand where the misunderstanding come from and I am starting to wonder if I misuse the expression "take advantage of". I've always thought there was a difference between "taking advantage of <someone>" which I thought was always bad and "taking advantage of <something>" which I thought could be good or bad depending on the situation. If I have misunderstood, then apologies for the confusion.
    - 2y ago
pllbnk 2y ago
In the name of security of Europe. Russia collapsing won't mean the land disappears with its resources. It means more opportunity and happiness.
tim333 2y ago
>russia collapses... Then what? Ideally they could get a normal government rather than the current murderous dictatorship.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  State collapse followed by improvement in quality of life? I can think of maybe three examples in living memory versus, what, three hundred that didn’t work out so well.

watwut 2y ago

Trump will sell Ukraine to Russia. They won't be collapsing, they just got new support.

skinkestek 2y ago
But finally Europe is waking up. Largest mainstream newspaper in Norway had an article this morning that some of our politicians want to increase our support to many times what it is today. Four unlikely allies want to increase. The two traditionally largest parties are on the fence and only one large party was clearly against increasing it as far as I saw and remember. More interestingly a poll there indicated broad support (slightly above 80% at the time I read it) from readers that we should increase our support significantly. As I mentioned our two largest traditionally parties are on the fence, but I guess they will land were the majority of the voters are. And to be clear: our current level of support has broad support from every party represented.
- watwut 2y ago
  I hope you are right, but there are also growing right wing movements and countries with pro-russian governments. I dislike those governments and all that, but they will make it harder for the good parts of Europe to remain good. The other issue is that if US supports Russia, the Europe has no chance. And Trump will be actively working on destroying Europe too - both economically and politically. Not because of Russia, but because that is wining for him and because he was successful at that his whole life.

zenlot 2y ago

Kids still with you or with government already?

skinkestek 2y ago
With me. I belong to subgroup that people like to pick on. I mean I lost two good gigs already thanks to media attacks. Still no problems with that yet, not for me nor for any of my friends in the same situation. It certainly helps that we are friendly people who go out of our way to help others so anyone who knows us personally doesn't attack us and it probably also helps that our kids are doing well in school and we do well in the workplace. But I cannot shake the feeling that I can't be sure if we will continue to be safe. We have many friends, yes, but wave after wave of attacks in media does make me wonder.