4 ms·

I know "laws are useless without enforcement" but I'll ask anyway: How legal (or what's the process) for a federal entity to demand state records? Some of Trun

I know "laws are useless without enforcement" but I'll ask anyway: How legal (or what's the process) for a federal entity to demand state records? Some of Trunps's big plans rely on "State's rights" as a backbone for their rationale, so I'm curious on how far those rights really go in face of federal.

duxup 2y ago
For a random agent of the federal government to show up who has no connection or agreement with the local city entity and demand records? They would have NO legal standing to make demands. GOP rhetoric is almost always opposite of what you might expect "states rights" is just a phrase to the GOP, they mean "states can do what they like as long it is what we want" otherwise they do not care about states rights. Having said that as far as the example goes, I suspect DOGE is busy with the federal government. DOJ though, they have options as far investigating things go, and other departments have deals with state and municipal agencies that give them leverage to make some requests for information, but they don't provide the "anything goes" kind of access that DOGE is reported to have at the federal level. Every agency that would have some leverage, it would be dependent on specific circumstances, agreements, and courts (assuming this administration cares what they say) have historically protected the state's rights to do their thing.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Tangentially, "fighting for states' rights" is a common falsehood told by apologists for the Confederacy in the US civil war. Not only did the slave states try to force other states to tolerate slavery within their own borders, but the biggest changes in the Confederacy's constitution was how it permanently removed rights from its member-states.
dathinab 2y ago
in general (and as far as I know in the US): you need a court order
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Depends. Various things require cooperation with the federal government. For example there are various laws that require specific types of records or data to be shared. Various types of federal funding can come with those requirements. Or there can be criminal investigations that result in records being requested. But someone randomly showing up sound illegitimate, and as the article notes, these weren’t people associated with the administration it appears.

duxup 2y ago

For a random agent of the federal government to show up who has no connection or agreement with the local city entity and demand records? They would have NO legal standing to make demands. GOP rhetoric is almost always opposite of what you might expect "states rights" is just a phrase to the GOP, they mean "states can do what they like as long it is what we want" otherwise they do not care about states rights. Having said that as far as the example goes, I suspect DOGE is busy with the federal government. DOJ though, they have options as far investigating things go, and other departments have deals with state and municipal agencies that give them leverage to make some requests for information, but they don't provide the "anything goes" kind of access that DOGE is reported to have at the federal level. Every agency that would have some leverage, it would be dependent on specific circumstances, agreements, and courts (assuming this administration cares what they say) have historically protected the state's rights to do their thing.

Terr_ 2y ago
Tangentially, "fighting for states' rights" is a common falsehood told by apologists for the Confederacy in the US civil war. Not only did the slave states try to force other states to tolerate slavery within their own borders, but the biggest changes in the Confederacy's constitution was how it permanently removed rights from its member-states.

dathinab 2y ago

in general (and as far as I know in the US): you need a court order

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Depends. Various things require cooperation with the federal government. For example there are various laws that require specific types of records or data to be shared. Various types of federal funding can come with those requirements. Or there can be criminal investigations that result in records being requested. But someone randomly showing up sound illegitimate, and as the article notes, these weren’t people associated with the administration it appears.