5 ms·

In the US, you get social security, medicare/medicaid, the world's most powerful military, transportation infrastructure, education, fire departments, VA benefi

In the US, you get social security, medicare/medicaid, the world's most powerful military, transportation infrastructure, education, fire departments, VA benefits, and hundreds of other things. You might not value any of it, but that's the parent's point: You aren't getting nothing, you're getting a lot of expensive things you don't value for your taxes. It's a completely different type of discussion to have and one that's much more amenable to productive discussion.

Ygg2 2y ago
> transportation infrastructure, education, fire departments, Didn't recent events like LA fires demonstrate just how neglected those services are. Having a better military in a war is great, but having overtly fat military industrial complex isn't that great.
- daveguy 2y ago
  Apparently you fell for the narrative that LA ran out of water because they preferred to save the environment. Just so you know, it didn't matter how much water was in any reservoirs. There was plenty of water. The two failures that happened were -- 100 MPH wind after drought conditions, and the fact that if you try to get water out of every fire hydrant in a large area you will run out of water pressure. The solution to water pressure is increasing the number of reservoirs so that each one services a smaller area. That is done with infrastructure improvements that require a government willing to fund them, and residents willing to accept them. 100 MPH winds + drought conditions + fire over a large area is not addressable without massive over-provisioning. You may want to reconsider where you get your news from, because it seems you are being misinformed.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    The local reservoir that serviced the palisades was out of service for months due to a tear in its roof which had yet to be fixed. The repair, per a competent repair person, would have taken a week if they had done it. That's why the water pressure locally was so low. They had already done what you wanted, and increased the number of reservoirs, but the relevant one had been out of service for months. It can both be true that Trump is a bloviating liar and the LA government is incompetent.
    - daveguy 2y ago
      It may be a bit more complicated than what a nameless "competent repair person" thought it should have been. Do you worship your news sources too? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservoir-pacific-palisades-was-commission-fire-started-rcna187217 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservoir-pacific-palis...
  - Ygg2 2y ago
    Are droughts, fires or fast winds unknown conditions in LA? A government should be preparing for them. Doubly so a government that believes in climate change. Which was the opposite of what happened with firemen raising warnings but they falling on uninterested ears.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Henchman21 2y ago
I will not receive social security or medicare/medicaid, as they are actively being gutted today. Our military goes on adventures I have never supported (Iraq? Afghanistan?). I am not entitled to VA benefits. My education was trash. I’ll grant you fire depts & transportation, though the transport stuff isn’t at all properly invested in. I don’t care to make car companies more money. These are all the same as nothing to me. You can split hairs and say I am getting something not nothing, but that doesn’t change the lived experience of being poor, sick, and badly educated in the wealthiest nation. This world doesn’t exist for people like me— it exists for all you folks. And boy, lemme tell ya… I would be super happy to burn your world to the ground, and I say that with horror in my eyes as I look at the fires that Elon is starting.
- dasil003 2y ago
  Just because you don't support the decisions about how the military is deployed doesn't mean you don't benefit from its existence. Being an American citizen already comes out of the box with a bunch of benefits, and I'm unaware of any place with a similar standard of living that has lower taxes overall.
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    but are you sure if those standards of living are because of striving economy and hardworking people or because of military adventures?
- JackYoustra 2y ago
  who is "all you folks"? Kinda, how do you say, too vague to be useful? and I'm sorry you were poor, sick, and badly educated, but the closest thing to "don't do that" was the American Rescue Plan's permanent child tax credit which cut child poverty in half and oh god wait that's a scheme in a huge bill and I've already lost everyone because that's still too complicated and now it's gone. That's the problem. Every time you repeat the cynical meme that nothing can be done and all taxes are wasted and everything you sap strength from the progress that can be made when we actually pull in the same direction: https://www.economist.com/special-report/2019/09/26/the-official-way-america-calculates-poverty-is-deeply-flawed https://www.economist.com/special-report/2019/09/26/the-offi... (see the image: https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=80,format=auto/sites/default/files/images/2019/09/articles/body/20190928_src552.png https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=8...)
caspper69 2y ago
Slightly pedantic nit: I know you're pointing out what "taxes" get you, but most people look at the tax brackets for income taxes and correlate that with the level of government services they receive. It's important to note that income taxes do not fund Social Security and Medicare. These are funded through FICA taxes, paid 7.65% from the individual and the employer match of another 7.65%. That's why if you are self-employed (or do 1099 work on the side), you pay self employment taxes, which is both halves to the tune of 15.3%. So people actually pay their income tax (less the standard or itemized deductions) on the stairstep up to the top bracket IN ADDITION to FICA. Not passing judgment on whether it's an equitable deal for everyone involved, but we do get taxed pretty heavily. Especially when you throw state income taxes (for those states that have them) and property taxes into the mix.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  Income taxes absolutely do fund Social Security and Medicare. Those programs would be even more insolvent on FICA taxes alone.
  - caspper69 2y ago
    Excuse me, sir. Please don't just tell me I'm wrong without doing some research. SS: https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/HowAreSocialSecurity.htm https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/HowAreSocialSecuri... How is Social Security financed? Social Security is financed through a dedicated payroll tax. Employers and employees each pay 6.2 percent of wages up to the taxable maximum of $176,100 (in 2025), while the self-employed pay 12.4 percent. Total income, including interest, to the combined OASI and DI Trust Funds amounted to $1.351 trillion in 2023. ($1.233 trillion from net payroll tax contributions, $51 billion from taxation of benefits, and $67 billion in interest) US Social Security Expenditures in 2023: $1.351 trillion. Do you see income taxes in there other than those from recipients? I won't dirty up this post further, but Medicare is likewise funded; like SS, income taxes on Social Security benefits do go partially to fund Medicare, as those people are generally program recipients. The final funding source is Part A premiums. I don't mind banter or disagreements, but please do not tell me I'm wrong when you have not even bothered to look. Your gut feeling is not a good basis to dispute someone's premise.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Senior citizens get Medicare SSN, impoverished get Medicaid. The military contractors make money from the military. I pay for a private school because it's the only single-sex option. Sure, I get transportation and infrastructure. So do a whole ton of countries. We are the wealthiest country in the world. If all the average person will get is transportation and infrastructure, it can be improved from what it currently is.
- JackYoustra 2y ago
  SS and healthcare are the two most expensive parts and will likely always be, and the nature of healthcare is the average won't see anywhere near the amount of money they're spending. The social choice we've come to is we'll spend the money anyway because it's (in general) morally repulsive to let (most) medically-addressible suffering go on for want of money, so I'm not sure how we can get around that.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    I'm not against paying for SS and Medicare, but there are tons of changes we could make that would benefit average Americans.
    - JackYoustra 2y ago
      What are some you have in mind?
      - aprilthird2021 2y ago
        Decrease foreign aid. Instead of $25+B to Israel (just an example, sure there are tons of others), we can keep the money for ourselves.

Ygg2 2y ago

> transportation infrastructure, education, fire departments, Didn't recent events like LA fires demonstrate just how neglected those services are. Having a better military in a war is great, but having overtly fat military industrial complex isn't that great.

daveguy 2y ago
Apparently you fell for the narrative that LA ran out of water because they preferred to save the environment. Just so you know, it didn't matter how much water was in any reservoirs. There was plenty of water. The two failures that happened were -- 100 MPH wind after drought conditions, and the fact that if you try to get water out of every fire hydrant in a large area you will run out of water pressure. The solution to water pressure is increasing the number of reservoirs so that each one services a smaller area. That is done with infrastructure improvements that require a government willing to fund them, and residents willing to accept them. 100 MPH winds + drought conditions + fire over a large area is not addressable without massive over-provisioning. You may want to reconsider where you get your news from, because it seems you are being misinformed.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  The local reservoir that serviced the palisades was out of service for months due to a tear in its roof which had yet to be fixed. The repair, per a competent repair person, would have taken a week if they had done it. That's why the water pressure locally was so low. They had already done what you wanted, and increased the number of reservoirs, but the relevant one had been out of service for months. It can both be true that Trump is a bloviating liar and the LA government is incompetent.
  - daveguy 2y ago
    It may be a bit more complicated than what a nameless "competent repair person" thought it should have been. Do you worship your news sources too? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservoir-pacific-palisades-was-commission-fire-started-rcna187217 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reservoir-pacific-palis...
- Ygg2 2y ago
  Are droughts, fires or fast winds unknown conditions in LA? A government should be preparing for them. Doubly so a government that believes in climate change. Which was the opposite of what happened with firemen raising warnings but they falling on uninterested ears.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Henchman21 2y ago

I will not receive social security or medicare/medicaid, as they are actively being gutted today. Our military goes on adventures I have never supported (Iraq? Afghanistan?). I am not entitled to VA benefits. My education was trash. I’ll grant you fire depts & transportation, though the transport stuff isn’t at all properly invested in. I don’t care to make car companies more money. These are all the same as nothing to me. You can split hairs and say I am getting something not nothing, but that doesn’t change the lived experience of being poor, sick, and badly educated in the wealthiest nation. This world doesn’t exist for people like me— it exists for all you folks. And boy, lemme tell ya… I would be super happy to burn your world to the ground, and I say that with horror in my eyes as I look at the fires that Elon is starting.

dasil003 2y ago
Just because you don't support the decisions about how the military is deployed doesn't mean you don't benefit from its existence. Being an American citizen already comes out of the box with a bunch of benefits, and I'm unaware of any place with a similar standard of living that has lower taxes overall.
- riku_iki 2y ago
  but are you sure if those standards of living are because of striving economy and hardworking people or because of military adventures?
JackYoustra 2y ago
who is "all you folks"? Kinda, how do you say, too vague to be useful? and I'm sorry you were poor, sick, and badly educated, but the closest thing to "don't do that" was the American Rescue Plan's permanent child tax credit which cut child poverty in half and oh god wait that's a scheme in a huge bill and I've already lost everyone because that's still too complicated and now it's gone. That's the problem. Every time you repeat the cynical meme that nothing can be done and all taxes are wasted and everything you sap strength from the progress that can be made when we actually pull in the same direction: https://www.economist.com/special-report/2019/09/26/the-official-way-america-calculates-poverty-is-deeply-flawed https://www.economist.com/special-report/2019/09/26/the-offi... (see the image: https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=80,format=auto/sites/default/files/images/2019/09/articles/body/20190928_src552.png https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1424,quality=8...)

caspper69 2y ago

Slightly pedantic nit: I know you're pointing out what "taxes" get you, but most people look at the tax brackets for income taxes and correlate that with the level of government services they receive. It's important to note that income taxes do not fund Social Security and Medicare. These are funded through FICA taxes, paid 7.65% from the individual and the employer match of another 7.65%. That's why if you are self-employed (or do 1099 work on the side), you pay self employment taxes, which is both halves to the tune of 15.3%. So people actually pay their income tax (less the standard or itemized deductions) on the stairstep up to the top bracket IN ADDITION to FICA. Not passing judgment on whether it's an equitable deal for everyone involved, but we do get taxed pretty heavily. Especially when you throw state income taxes (for those states that have them) and property taxes into the mix.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
Income taxes absolutely do fund Social Security and Medicare. Those programs would be even more insolvent on FICA taxes alone.
- caspper69 2y ago
  Excuse me, sir. Please don't just tell me I'm wrong without doing some research. SS: https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/HowAreSocialSecurity.htm https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheets/HowAreSocialSecuri... How is Social Security financed? Social Security is financed through a dedicated payroll tax. Employers and employees each pay 6.2 percent of wages up to the taxable maximum of $176,100 (in 2025), while the self-employed pay 12.4 percent. Total income, including interest, to the combined OASI and DI Trust Funds amounted to $1.351 trillion in 2023. ($1.233 trillion from net payroll tax contributions, $51 billion from taxation of benefits, and $67 billion in interest) US Social Security Expenditures in 2023: $1.351 trillion. Do you see income taxes in there other than those from recipients? I won't dirty up this post further, but Medicare is likewise funded; like SS, income taxes on Social Security benefits do go partially to fund Medicare, as those people are generally program recipients. The final funding source is Part A premiums. I don't mind banter or disagreements, but please do not tell me I'm wrong when you have not even bothered to look. Your gut feeling is not a good basis to dispute someone's premise.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

Senior citizens get Medicare SSN, impoverished get Medicaid. The military contractors make money from the military. I pay for a private school because it's the only single-sex option. Sure, I get transportation and infrastructure. So do a whole ton of countries. We are the wealthiest country in the world. If all the average person will get is transportation and infrastructure, it can be improved from what it currently is.

JackYoustra 2y ago
SS and healthcare are the two most expensive parts and will likely always be, and the nature of healthcare is the average won't see anywhere near the amount of money they're spending. The social choice we've come to is we'll spend the money anyway because it's (in general) morally repulsive to let (most) medically-addressible suffering go on for want of money, so I'm not sure how we can get around that.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  I'm not against paying for SS and Medicare, but there are tons of changes we could make that would benefit average Americans.
  - JackYoustra 2y ago
    What are some you have in mind?
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      Decrease foreign aid. Instead of $25+B to Israel (just an example, sure there are tons of others), we can keep the money for ourselves.