4 ms·

Can we expect another round of silly blocklists from the fediverse?

guywithahat 2y ago
That would be the logical expectation. Fediverse maintainers can be worse than Reddit mods in how aggressively they ban users and instances
cogman10 2y ago
I'd assume not. Tumblr isn't anywhere near as big a player in the social media arena as Meta is.
kmeisthax 2y ago
It depends on the server operator. Threads was preemptively shitlisted just for thinking of connecting to Fediverse, because a lot of instance admins are ActivityPub or Mastodon maximalists[0] and believed that everyone would just flock over to Threads immediately. Then it was shitlisted again because Mark Zuckerberg started zucking on Trump, and decided to take their already threadbare moderation team and tie their hands further. This is a more practical concern as most Fedi admins do not have the time or ability to deal with one mega-instance that happens to be both indispensable and willing to flood everyone with garbage. I could see Tumblr getting shitlisted purely on the grounds of "fuck Matt Mullenweg", because Fedi admins are also hilariously petty[1]. But in practice, "just link Tumblr up to Fedi" is going to be just as much of a problem as "just link Threads up to Fedi". There's an underlying tension between the Fediverse's technical underpinnings - ActivityPub - and the community of Fediverse servers that use it. The technology wants to be widely adopted, but the community wants to be small enough to avoid harassment and attacks[2], and these are in conflict. The Fediverse's structure is already a lot more centralized than anyone would like to admit, and scaling the network makes this problem worse. [0] As opposed to general enthusiasm for federated communications technologies. See also the pushback Cory Doctorow got for backing Free our Feeds, a plan to make good on BlueSky's currently vacuous federation promises. [1] This is why I self-host Mastodon even though it's a total pain in the ass. [2] Like that one time a bunch of Japanese skiddies decided to spam literally every server from whatever accounts they could register
- Ruthalas 2y ago
  Regarding [1], do you foresee this changing at some point? I'm interested in self hosting, bit have heard consistently that it is painful, so I've been waiting in the hopes that it will eventually improve.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    Hosting Mastodon is as difficult as deploying a traditional web app: if you are familiar with docker, it's just a matter of choosing where you are going to put your database, redis and where to store media. The problem is that it is expensive. Even if you host on a cheap VPS and put your media on some object storage like Storj (~$4/TB/month), you are problably looking at a minimum of $20/month for the server. If you get for yourself, maybe your friends and stay under 50 users, fine. If you get more than that then you'll need a beefier server, and if any of users follows lots of media-heavy accounts and does not set it up to delete old posts, your object storage will be full very quick.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Regarding the object store: I use DigitalOcean’s Spaces, and it runs me about $9/mo. I have about 4K users. It doesn’t have to be expensive.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Pleroma was recommended to me as a less resource-intensive alternative to Mastodon and with less anti-features. It runs fine with one user on Hetzner's cheapest VPS. I delete posts mirrored from other servers older than 90 days with a cron job. It has a command to do this.
      - rglullis 2y ago
        Pleroma and GoToSocial are indeed better if you are looking for something more efficient. But I am still not happy with the idea that we should be deleting data from the server just to keep it manageable. It reminds of the before Gmail where people would get 5MB quota of Yahoo Mail and would have to go around deleting stuff from their mailboxes every other month.
OkayPhysicist 2y ago
I'd gamble that it'll be less so than the response to Threads. Tumblr users, on average, are generally a better culture fit than Facebook/Instagram ones.
- actualwitch 2y ago
  Users? Yes. Owner? No.
kurisufag 2y ago
defederators are morons, but they're the same class of moron from Tumblr that invented things like the "DNI list"
- immibis 2y ago
  You don't like free association?

That would be the logical expectation. Fediverse maintainers can be worse than Reddit mods in how aggressively they ban users and instances

cogman10 2y ago

I'd assume not. Tumblr isn't anywhere near as big a player in the social media arena as Meta is.

kmeisthax 2y ago

It depends on the server operator. Threads was preemptively shitlisted just for thinking of connecting to Fediverse, because a lot of instance admins are ActivityPub or Mastodon maximalists[0] and believed that everyone would just flock over to Threads immediately. Then it was shitlisted again because Mark Zuckerberg started zucking on Trump, and decided to take their already threadbare moderation team and tie their hands further. This is a more practical concern as most Fedi admins do not have the time or ability to deal with one mega-instance that happens to be both indispensable and willing to flood everyone with garbage. I could see Tumblr getting shitlisted purely on the grounds of "fuck Matt Mullenweg", because Fedi admins are also hilariously petty[1]. But in practice, "just link Tumblr up to Fedi" is going to be just as much of a problem as "just link Threads up to Fedi". There's an underlying tension between the Fediverse's technical underpinnings - ActivityPub - and the community of Fediverse servers that use it. The technology wants to be widely adopted, but the community wants to be small enough to avoid harassment and attacks[2], and these are in conflict. The Fediverse's structure is already a lot more centralized than anyone would like to admit, and scaling the network makes this problem worse. [0] As opposed to general enthusiasm for federated communications technologies. See also the pushback Cory Doctorow got for backing Free our Feeds, a plan to make good on BlueSky's currently vacuous federation promises. [1] This is why I self-host Mastodon even though it's a total pain in the ass. [2] Like that one time a bunch of Japanese skiddies decided to spam literally every server from whatever accounts they could register

Ruthalas 2y ago
Regarding [1], do you foresee this changing at some point? I'm interested in self hosting, bit have heard consistently that it is painful, so I've been waiting in the hopes that it will eventually improve.
- rglullis 2y ago
  Hosting Mastodon is as difficult as deploying a traditional web app: if you are familiar with docker, it's just a matter of choosing where you are going to put your database, redis and where to store media. The problem is that it is expensive. Even if you host on a cheap VPS and put your media on some object storage like Storj (~$4/TB/month), you are problably looking at a minimum of $20/month for the server. If you get for yourself, maybe your friends and stay under 50 users, fine. If you get more than that then you'll need a beefier server, and if any of users follows lots of media-heavy accounts and does not set it up to delete old posts, your object storage will be full very quick.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Regarding the object store: I use DigitalOcean’s Spaces, and it runs me about $9/mo. I have about 4K users. It doesn’t have to be expensive.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Pleroma was recommended to me as a less resource-intensive alternative to Mastodon and with less anti-features. It runs fine with one user on Hetzner's cheapest VPS. I delete posts mirrored from other servers older than 90 days with a cron job. It has a command to do this.
    - rglullis 2y ago
      Pleroma and GoToSocial are indeed better if you are looking for something more efficient. But I am still not happy with the idea that we should be deleting data from the server just to keep it manageable. It reminds of the before Gmail where people would get 5MB quota of Yahoo Mail and would have to go around deleting stuff from their mailboxes every other month.

OkayPhysicist 2y ago

I'd gamble that it'll be less so than the response to Threads. Tumblr users, on average, are generally a better culture fit than Facebook/Instagram ones.

actualwitch 2y ago
Users? Yes. Owner? No.

kurisufag 2y ago

defederators are morons, but they're the same class of moron from Tumblr that invented things like the "DNI list"

immibis 2y ago
You don't like free association?