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What's moral about it?

by wrs 2y ago

brianwawok 2y ago
The possible moral argument, is the government is funding a service that costs businesses revenue. However it would be pretty insane to argue that a citizen of a country should need to pay money for someone to fill out a basic tax return to pay taxes…
- Freedom2 2y ago
  I've had someone on this site say to me that it's because America embraces the free market, as well as it being the only country to have granular enough taxes to require a third party to handle it. It's incredibly hard because you can point to any other country to show examples of good (not perfect) implementations but then American exceptionalism takes over and they simply dismiss any advice.
  - ericrallen 2y ago
    It sounds like that particular someone might have had a vested interest in maintaining the current (terrible) status quo around filing taxes in America. The rest of us hate it.
    - muglug 2y ago
      The one thing I've discovered as I’ve got older is that most people don’t have some insidious vested interest. Complex political issues sometimes just come down to "I want my side to look good and I want the other side to look bad". In a system that treats Silicon Valley billionaires very differently to someone selling lumber in rural Ohio, sometimes that naked tribalism is the only thing that truly unites people in political parties. Some people hate the IRS self-filing system because it works, and because the "other side" is taking credit for it.
      - tomalbrc 2y ago
        The other thing I dicovered as I‘ve gotten even older than you is that some people absolutely do have insidious vested interests.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    It’s just a demonstration that people are capable firmly believing any type of nonsense. Nobody who isn’t being fed a bunch of propaganda is concerned about the freedom to fill out forms.
SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
The mistake is to assume our concept of morality is shared by the oligarchs.
strathmeyer 2y ago
Morals are a collection of ethics. Their ethics are that people who aren't billionaires are parasites, and that rape and overthrowing the country and murdering politics are acceptable, it's what everyone voted for. The guy in charge of the military has white nationalist tattoos and an unelected foreigner gave white power salutes behind the presidential seal, get used to it.
taco_emoji 2y ago
"Moral" can mean "of or relating to morality", not necessarily "exhibiting goodness".
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
yongjik 2y ago
American conservatives view governments as inherently evil: if the government can make it more convenient for people to pay tax, people might be willing to pay more tax (or at least object less to tax), allowing the government to spend more money, and since the government is inherently evil, it allows for more evil. On the other hand, creating an office whose sole objective is to destroy other functioning parts of the government and make it less useful to people? Totally moral. Don't ask me, I'm not a conservative.
- fzeroracer 2y ago
  You're arguing in the right direction, but you have the wrong basis. American Conservatives don't believe the government is evil, they believe that not having control over the government is evil. The slash and burning of agencies and departments isn't just due to a deep seated hatred, it's a need for control. And in order to have control you need consolidation. American Conservatives have no problems with state governments vastly overreaching their authority or punishing cities. They have no issue with potentially taxing workers more to issue tax breaks for corporations. And they have no issue using the government to punish, stalk or harass dissidents.
- CapricornNoble 2y ago
  > American conservatives view governments as inherently evil: Governments don't have a particularly good track record, so why give them the benefit of the doubt? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide According to Rummel, democide surpassed war as the leading cause of non-natural death in the 20th century. A government that is as weak as possible at least possesses less organizational capacity for murdering you when things inevitably go off the rails.
  - eldaisfish 2y ago
    this obsession with government tyranny in the US is bonkers. Why is your default assumption that government will "go off the rails"? Why is your starting point not the default for most reasonable people - that the government is literally people from that society trying to manage their own affairs and to help each other when possible?

What's moral about it?

by wrs 2y ago

What's moral about it?

The possible moral argument, is the government is funding a service that costs businesses revenue. However it would be pretty insane to argue that a citizen of a country should need to pay money for someone to fill out a basic tax return to pay taxes…

Freedom2 2y ago
I've had someone on this site say to me that it's because America embraces the free market, as well as it being the only country to have granular enough taxes to require a third party to handle it. It's incredibly hard because you can point to any other country to show examples of good (not perfect) implementations but then American exceptionalism takes over and they simply dismiss any advice.
- ericrallen 2y ago
  It sounds like that particular someone might have had a vested interest in maintaining the current (terrible) status quo around filing taxes in America. The rest of us hate it.
  - muglug 2y ago
    The one thing I've discovered as I’ve got older is that most people don’t have some insidious vested interest. Complex political issues sometimes just come down to "I want my side to look good and I want the other side to look bad". In a system that treats Silicon Valley billionaires very differently to someone selling lumber in rural Ohio, sometimes that naked tribalism is the only thing that truly unites people in political parties. Some people hate the IRS self-filing system because it works, and because the "other side" is taking credit for it.
    - tomalbrc 2y ago
      The other thing I dicovered as I‘ve gotten even older than you is that some people absolutely do have insidious vested interests.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Spooky23 2y ago
  It’s just a demonstration that people are capable firmly believing any type of nonsense. Nobody who isn’t being fed a bunch of propaganda is concerned about the freedom to fill out forms.

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago

The mistake is to assume our concept of morality is shared by the oligarchs.

strathmeyer 2y ago

Morals are a collection of ethics. Their ethics are that people who aren't billionaires are parasites, and that rape and overthrowing the country and murdering politics are acceptable, it's what everyone voted for. The guy in charge of the military has white nationalist tattoos and an unelected foreigner gave white power salutes behind the presidential seal, get used to it.

taco_emoji 2y ago

"Moral" can mean "of or relating to morality", not necessarily "exhibiting goodness".

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

yongjik 2y ago

American conservatives view governments as inherently evil: if the government can make it more convenient for people to pay tax, people might be willing to pay more tax (or at least object less to tax), allowing the government to spend more money, and since the government is inherently evil, it allows for more evil. On the other hand, creating an office whose sole objective is to destroy other functioning parts of the government and make it less useful to people? Totally moral. Don't ask me, I'm not a conservative.

fzeroracer 2y ago
You're arguing in the right direction, but you have the wrong basis. American Conservatives don't believe the government is evil, they believe that not having control over the government is evil. The slash and burning of agencies and departments isn't just due to a deep seated hatred, it's a need for control. And in order to have control you need consolidation. American Conservatives have no problems with state governments vastly overreaching their authority or punishing cities. They have no issue with potentially taxing workers more to issue tax breaks for corporations. And they have no issue using the government to punish, stalk or harass dissidents.
CapricornNoble 2y ago
> American conservatives view governments as inherently evil: Governments don't have a particularly good track record, so why give them the benefit of the doubt? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide According to Rummel, democide surpassed war as the leading cause of non-natural death in the 20th century. A government that is as weak as possible at least possesses less organizational capacity for murdering you when things inevitably go off the rails.
- eldaisfish 2y ago
  this obsession with government tyranny in the US is bonkers. Why is your default assumption that government will "go off the rails"? Why is your starting point not the default for most reasonable people - that the government is literally people from that society trying to manage their own affairs and to help each other when possible?