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I've far more respect for Tsutomu. In the end he turned out to be the better hacker. Reading Mitnicks book I sometimes get the impression that the he is making

I've far more respect for Tsutomu. In the end he turned out to be the better hacker. Reading Mitnicks book I sometimes get the impression that the he is making up half of it.

sidewndr46 2y ago
He's also on the winning side, so I imagine it'd be in his best interest to make himself look better.
tptacek 2y ago
To the best of my knowledge, Mitnick didn't really code at all. There are (let's call them) intrusion specialists whose skillsets don't really involve systems programming, but rather intuition and tenacity, and there are others who write exploits. My understanding is that Mitnick was the former, and was using tools he got from friends and peers.
- vasco 2y ago
  In the book he spends a lot of time on the social engineering parts of it to be honest. It's been a few years but I remember him mostly bragging about that rather than developing custom exploits.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    He also comes from an era of intrusions where systems were so bad you didn't really need to code to get into them. For an alarmingly long time, the most effective tool you could use to pop a network was simply `showmount`.
    - ASalazarMX 2y ago
      That time is still today, as people are still the weakest link. A talented scammer can convince people to give them access to their WhatsApp account despite the E2EE, 2FA, and SMS verification codes. In Mitnik's version, he RTFMs, learned the technical lingo, procedures, and even the names of telco employees.
      - devmor 2y ago
        100% The majority of corporate breaches are a combination of poor Least Privilege practices and phishing/smishing. Even with well secured, alert personnel, you often see ISPs and Telcos socially engineered to gain access to an employee account.
    - d1sxeyes 2y ago
      Yeah I think Mitnik’s abilities were mostly around thinking about doing stuff that no-one had considered that you could do. It’s still a big skill, but nowadays, there’s less stuff that no-one has thought about before.
- jasonfarnon 2y ago
  the steve jobs of hacking
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  He didn't really code in the book either... maybe 5% of the book... he did some script kiddie type exploits, some copying of proof of concepts, and some minor modifications (like modifying the "logon" program to save passwords somewhere in cleartext). 75% of the book is spent social engineering over the phone and 20% doing stuff on phone switches and other equipment.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  I have met the type on my time on the internet. All it takes is having the guts to push through with what others give you, things they themselves know would get them in legal hell.
indrora 2y ago
Anyone who has studied the later parts of the phone system know that at least a few of his stories are actually bullshit. It wouldn't be until much later (in the 90s at least, while he was in prison) that the advent of pure digital switching would enable the random reassignment of phone lines like he describes in the story about turning his friend's home phone into a payphone. The lines were separated and had differences in sender frames just for payphones, plus typical phones weren't too happy when 130VDC was applied to them for very long. The fact of the matter is that Mitnick went around and shook doorhandles until something opened and occasionally convinced someone to open a door for him her and there, and the fact that the emperor had no clothes was too politically inconvenient for the kinds of companies that Mitnick hit up.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  The 4ESS was a pure digital switch starting in 1976.
- quesera 2y ago
  Medium-sized US exchanges were being converted to ESS in the 1980s. I remember the day my busy signal changed from a buzz (350+440 Hz) to a tone (480+620 Hz).
jamal-kumar 2y ago
After hearing his voice messages in a fake asian voice trying to mess with Shimomura, I kinda lost all respect for Mitnick.
MG9991ep545a1l3 2y ago
Kevin hasn’t hacked anything at all. He ran with a few other characters who never received anywhere near the amount of attention that Mitnick did. For example, no one ever figured out who “jsz” was.
- tptacek 2y ago
  I think pretty much everyone in that scene knows.
jazz9k 2y ago
I heard him on Art Bell multiple times talking about it. I many cases, someone else did the ground work and he just used it.
29athrowaway 2y ago
John Markoff was the one that made everything up. Freedom Downtime is a documentary that explains it.

I've far more respect for Tsutomu. In the end he turned out to be the better hacker. Reading Mitnicks book I sometimes get the impression that the he is making up half of it.

sidewndr46 2y ago

He's also on the winning side, so I imagine it'd be in his best interest to make himself look better.

tptacek 2y ago

To the best of my knowledge, Mitnick didn't really code at all. There are (let's call them) intrusion specialists whose skillsets don't really involve systems programming, but rather intuition and tenacity, and there are others who write exploits. My understanding is that Mitnick was the former, and was using tools he got from friends and peers.

vasco 2y ago
In the book he spends a lot of time on the social engineering parts of it to be honest. It's been a few years but I remember him mostly bragging about that rather than developing custom exploits.
- tptacek 2y ago
  He also comes from an era of intrusions where systems were so bad you didn't really need to code to get into them. For an alarmingly long time, the most effective tool you could use to pop a network was simply `showmount`.
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    That time is still today, as people are still the weakest link. A talented scammer can convince people to give them access to their WhatsApp account despite the E2EE, 2FA, and SMS verification codes. In Mitnik's version, he RTFMs, learned the technical lingo, procedures, and even the names of telco employees.
    - devmor 2y ago
      100% The majority of corporate breaches are a combination of poor Least Privilege practices and phishing/smishing. Even with well secured, alert personnel, you often see ISPs and Telcos socially engineered to gain access to an employee account.
  - d1sxeyes 2y ago
    Yeah I think Mitnik’s abilities were mostly around thinking about doing stuff that no-one had considered that you could do. It’s still a big skill, but nowadays, there’s less stuff that no-one has thought about before.
jasonfarnon 2y ago
the steve jobs of hacking
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
He didn't really code in the book either... maybe 5% of the book... he did some script kiddie type exploits, some copying of proof of concepts, and some minor modifications (like modifying the "logon" program to save passwords somewhere in cleartext). 75% of the book is spent social engineering over the phone and 20% doing stuff on phone switches and other equipment.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
I have met the type on my time on the internet. All it takes is having the guts to push through with what others give you, things they themselves know would get them in legal hell.

indrora 2y ago

Anyone who has studied the later parts of the phone system know that at least a few of his stories are actually bullshit. It wouldn't be until much later (in the 90s at least, while he was in prison) that the advent of pure digital switching would enable the random reassignment of phone lines like he describes in the story about turning his friend's home phone into a payphone. The lines were separated and had differences in sender frames just for payphones, plus typical phones weren't too happy when 130VDC was applied to them for very long. The fact of the matter is that Mitnick went around and shook doorhandles until something opened and occasionally convinced someone to open a door for him her and there, and the fact that the emperor had no clothes was too politically inconvenient for the kinds of companies that Mitnick hit up.

kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
The 4ESS was a pure digital switch starting in 1976.
quesera 2y ago
Medium-sized US exchanges were being converted to ESS in the 1980s. I remember the day my busy signal changed from a buzz (350+440 Hz) to a tone (480+620 Hz).

jamal-kumar 2y ago

After hearing his voice messages in a fake asian voice trying to mess with Shimomura, I kinda lost all respect for Mitnick.

MG9991ep545a1l3 2y ago

Kevin hasn’t hacked anything at all. He ran with a few other characters who never received anywhere near the amount of attention that Mitnick did. For example, no one ever figured out who “jsz” was.

tptacek 2y ago
I think pretty much everyone in that scene knows.

jazz9k 2y ago

I heard him on Art Bell multiple times talking about it. I many cases, someone else did the ground work and he just used it.

29athrowaway 2y ago

John Markoff was the one that made everything up. Freedom Downtime is a documentary that explains it.