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I don’t think that’s really the case anymore. The vast majority are on React, Vue, or Svelte (in order of my perception of their popularity). On the CSS side it

I don’t think that’s really the case anymore. The vast majority are on React, Vue, or Svelte (in order of my perception of their popularity). On the CSS side it seems like Tailwind and PostCSS has taken over. The heavier framework category is covered by Next.js. Other than Next, most of that popularity started solidifying in 2020. There are a bunch of newer frameworks like Astro and HTMX and so on, but it doesn’t seem like their adoption is eating into much of the bigger player’s “market.” There’s still the problem of many library authors playing fast and loose with semver breaking changes and absolutely gigantic dependency trees that exacerbate the issue. That’s where most of my churn comes from, not new frameworks.

datadrivenangel 2y ago
Yeah but React is swapping major recommendations / styles ever 18 months still. How do you create a react application these days? Not create-react-app apparently?
- promiseofbeans 2y ago
  NextJS for a SSR app, or Vite for a create-react-app style SPA. Vite has been great for the whole web-dev ecosystem, since it's super easy to configure, and very pluggable, so most frameworks are built around it now. That means you can write, e.g. a new CSS preprocessor, and if you make a Vite plugin, it works with (almost) every framework without extra effort
  - zkldi 2y ago
    But this isn't even true, and NextJS is well into egregiously complexity. Remix was an alternative option in the space that is now deprecated in all-but-name for React Router v7, which (for those just tuning back in), react router is now a framework. If you wrote your app in NextJS 2 years ago, you would already have to rewrite chunks of it to get it to compile today. These tools are NOT solidified, they are releasing breaking changes at least once a year.
- throwup238 2y ago
  IMO create-react-app was a crutch for the last generation of build systems like webpack which were egregiously complex. Nowadays you just use Vite and start with whatever Github template has all the tech you need. Even starting a project from scratch is really simple now since the config files to get started are tiny and simple. There’s always the problem of outdated tutorials on the internet, but as a frontend dev spinning up a new project has never been simpler. The pace of development is definitely challenging. There’s so many libraries involved in any project that many fall behind in updating their code and application devs get caught in the crossfire when trying to upgrade (and woe be to you if someone added react = “*” somewhere in their peer dependencies).
  - zelphirkalt 2y ago
    Never been simpler you say? I think that heavily depends on your project. If you are not building an app, but a website, I think it has been simpler for at least a decade, because then you wouldn't worry about lots of the stuff like bundler, build system (for a few scripts!!!) and some plain CSS. But aside from all that topic, I have a question about Vite. Does it in any way bind you to using their service for hosting, or can one just as well and easy host such an app on ones own bare metal server?
    - throwup238 2y ago
      What service? It’s a bundler that outputs HTML, Js, and CSS. You can upload that or run a Node webserver wherever you want.
      - zelphirkalt 2y ago
        I think I mixed it up with vercel. Thanks, you answered my question.
benatkin 2y ago
I think their combined market share is finally shrinking for leading edge projects. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42388665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42388665 Also, AI makes a lot of terrible mainstream stuff because the natural bias is towards the mainstream. That's where I count its tendency to default to React if I ask for frontend code without further context.

datadrivenangel 2y ago

Yeah but React is swapping major recommendations / styles ever 18 months still. How do you create a react application these days? Not create-react-app apparently?

promiseofbeans 2y ago
NextJS for a SSR app, or Vite for a create-react-app style SPA. Vite has been great for the whole web-dev ecosystem, since it's super easy to configure, and very pluggable, so most frameworks are built around it now. That means you can write, e.g. a new CSS preprocessor, and if you make a Vite plugin, it works with (almost) every framework without extra effort
- zkldi 2y ago
  But this isn't even true, and NextJS is well into egregiously complexity. Remix was an alternative option in the space that is now deprecated in all-but-name for React Router v7, which (for those just tuning back in), react router is now a framework. If you wrote your app in NextJS 2 years ago, you would already have to rewrite chunks of it to get it to compile today. These tools are NOT solidified, they are releasing breaking changes at least once a year.
throwup238 2y ago
IMO create-react-app was a crutch for the last generation of build systems like webpack which were egregiously complex. Nowadays you just use Vite and start with whatever Github template has all the tech you need. Even starting a project from scratch is really simple now since the config files to get started are tiny and simple. There’s always the problem of outdated tutorials on the internet, but as a frontend dev spinning up a new project has never been simpler. The pace of development is definitely challenging. There’s so many libraries involved in any project that many fall behind in updating their code and application devs get caught in the crossfire when trying to upgrade (and woe be to you if someone added react = “*” somewhere in their peer dependencies).
- zelphirkalt 2y ago
  Never been simpler you say? I think that heavily depends on your project. If you are not building an app, but a website, I think it has been simpler for at least a decade, because then you wouldn't worry about lots of the stuff like bundler, build system (for a few scripts!!!) and some plain CSS. But aside from all that topic, I have a question about Vite. Does it in any way bind you to using their service for hosting, or can one just as well and easy host such an app on ones own bare metal server?
  - throwup238 2y ago
    What service? It’s a bundler that outputs HTML, Js, and CSS. You can upload that or run a Node webserver wherever you want.
    - zelphirkalt 2y ago
      I think I mixed it up with vercel. Thanks, you answered my question.

benatkin 2y ago

I think their combined market share is finally shrinking for leading edge projects. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43008190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42388665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42388665 Also, AI makes a lot of terrible mainstream stuff because the natural bias is towards the mainstream. That's where I count its tendency to default to React if I ask for frontend code without further context.