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> As an example, because I lean "right", I'm less likely to send my kids to an American indoctrination camp to get a degree. You could laugh and judge and claim

by zoky 2y ago

> As an example, because I lean "right", I'm less likely to send my kids to an American indoctrination camp to get a degree. You could laugh and judge and claim disbelief, but this is very real and I'm serious. I've literally had smart, well thinking friends from school turn into zombies spouting left-wing talking points after moving to an American college. And not "smart" left-leaning talking points, they're arguably brain-washed and not even using their intelligence to reason their left-leaning views with me. Another way of putting this would be “I’ve seen people go off and get exposed to new ideas, and when they came back they no longer agreed with me.” But that doesn’t mean we should block access to learning.

zo1 2y ago
I'm very cognizant of that, and I would understand it if they came back and reasoned or debated with me. But I promise you, the stuff I got back from some of these individuals was pure talking points and they were downright hostile and aggressive to even entertaining the idea of a debate on certain topics. It was eerie, and I love spirited debate and hot topics; they make in-person conversation lively as long as everyone stays civil.
- zoky 2y ago
  On the other hand, your use of descriptors such as “American indoctrination camps” and “zombies spouting left-wing talking points” does not make it seem like you’re particularly open or receptive to “spirited debate”. These are not “civil” terms used by someone who is seriously interested in having his or her ideas challenged. From my perspective, it sounds like your friends were exposed to ideas that would have been previously unavailable to them, and having had their horizons expanded, came to modify their views on certain things they had been effectively taught as dogma until that point. Then, when they came back and tried to communicate those newfound viewpoints, they were dismissed as brainwashed zombies who weren’t using their intelligence. I certainly would not consider it worth my time to argue with someone who believes me to be indoctrinated beyond hope and dismisses my intellectual capability simply because he or she disagrees with me.

by zoky 2y ago

zo1 2y ago

I'm very cognizant of that, and I would understand it if they came back and reasoned or debated with me. But I promise you, the stuff I got back from some of these individuals was pure talking points and they were downright hostile and aggressive to even entertaining the idea of a debate on certain topics. It was eerie, and I love spirited debate and hot topics; they make in-person conversation lively as long as everyone stays civil.

zoky 2y ago
On the other hand, your use of descriptors such as “American indoctrination camps” and “zombies spouting left-wing talking points” does not make it seem like you’re particularly open or receptive to “spirited debate”. These are not “civil” terms used by someone who is seriously interested in having his or her ideas challenged. From my perspective, it sounds like your friends were exposed to ideas that would have been previously unavailable to them, and having had their horizons expanded, came to modify their views on certain things they had been effectively taught as dogma until that point. Then, when they came back and tried to communicate those newfound viewpoints, they were dismissed as brainwashed zombies who weren’t using their intelligence. I certainly would not consider it worth my time to argue with someone who believes me to be indoctrinated beyond hope and dismisses my intellectual capability simply because he or she disagrees with me.