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> I've already consented to tracking at the OS level Isn't that sentence by itself kind of insane? Tracking at the OS level used to be unacceptable. Nobody sh

> I've already consented to tracking at the OS level Isn't that sentence by itself kind of insane? Tracking at the OS level used to be unacceptable. Nobody should expect their OS to track them like this in the first place.

Spivak 2y ago
Not saying what's being collected isn't invasive but over time we've redefined spyware and tracking to include logging, error reporting, and telemetry. Someone in the 90's would be imagining bonzi buddy when you say tracking when it's actually pendo.
- Latty 2y ago
  Companies have intentionally bucketed those things together with invasive ad tracking so they can obfuscate what the user is agreeing to. As with GDPR, it's easy to offer a good user experience and do the right things by default, but there is an active choice being made to make it annoying and misleading to try and trick users into doing stuff that is against their own interests.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    Apple isn't, I can turn off ad tracking and keep analytics on.
    - Latty 2y ago
      Sure, but the "redefinition" you talk of isn't consumers suddenly being unreasonable, it's the fact they've experienced so much gaslighting and unclear dark patterns they are (reasonably) assuming everything is suspect and rejecting it all.
- realusername 2y ago
  And what about something like the AdvertisingID? The OS creates an identifier for the purpose of tracking you with ads.
  - gruez 2y ago
    Before that app developers were reading IMEI or mac addresses, which were arguably worse because they can't be reset.
    - realusername 2y ago
      Isn't that just because the sandboxing is really poor on mobile compared to the web? You cannot read those on the web.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  This has it backwards: “telemetry” or otherwise collecting info without explicitly asking each time was definitely, for-sure just spyware as late as the mid ‘00s. We only later decided a bunch of that definitely-not-ok stuff was ok.

Spivak 2y ago

Not saying what's being collected isn't invasive but over time we've redefined spyware and tracking to include logging, error reporting, and telemetry. Someone in the 90's would be imagining bonzi buddy when you say tracking when it's actually pendo.

Latty 2y ago
Companies have intentionally bucketed those things together with invasive ad tracking so they can obfuscate what the user is agreeing to. As with GDPR, it's easy to offer a good user experience and do the right things by default, but there is an active choice being made to make it annoying and misleading to try and trick users into doing stuff that is against their own interests.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Apple isn't, I can turn off ad tracking and keep analytics on.
  - Latty 2y ago
    Sure, but the "redefinition" you talk of isn't consumers suddenly being unreasonable, it's the fact they've experienced so much gaslighting and unclear dark patterns they are (reasonably) assuming everything is suspect and rejecting it all.
realusername 2y ago
And what about something like the AdvertisingID? The OS creates an identifier for the purpose of tracking you with ads.
- gruez 2y ago
  Before that app developers were reading IMEI or mac addresses, which were arguably worse because they can't be reset.
  - realusername 2y ago
    Isn't that just because the sandboxing is really poor on mobile compared to the web? You cannot read those on the web.
alabastervlog 2y ago
This has it backwards: “telemetry” or otherwise collecting info without explicitly asking each time was definitely, for-sure just spyware as late as the mid ‘00s. We only later decided a bunch of that definitely-not-ok stuff was ok.