4 ms·

> Were you not aware of the subsequent court judgment in favor of the guy in the 2019 article? It. Doesn't. matter. The article linked is but one incident. The

> Were you not aware of the subsequent court judgment in favor of the guy in the 2019 article? It. Doesn't. matter. The article linked is but one incident. There's been plenty others, some involving public figures. Cops are literally acting like thought police and no, that isn't hyperbole. The problem that this occurs in the UK far more widespread than it does. I get you want to defend your country but I think you're taking it a bit far here. Denying the issues out of a sense of patriotism is how they worsen. > Incidentally, the Daily Mail is not a news source. As I said, the fact that it was a DM article is irrelevant here.

foldr 2y ago
Erm, it matters because the police were required to change their approach in light of that court judgment, as explained in the article that I linked. How can it possibly not matter that the checks and balances provided by the court of appeal succeeded in preventing future police action infringing on free speech? It’s because of this court decision that your Google search turned up a Daily Mail article from 2019 and not something more recent! You’ll have to remind me of the Chapter of 1984 in which the actions of the Thought Police are reined in by a system of legal checks and balances… > Denying the issues out of a sense of patriotism is how they worsen. You’re way off base here. Complaining about the UK is the UK’s national sport. I’m still bitter about Brexit and could write an essay about everything that’s wrong with this silly country. But it’s not a sinister Orwellian police state. If you want something genuinely sinister, look to the motivations of the people posting nonsense about the UK on Twitter.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > Erm, it matters because the police were required to change their approach in light of that court judgment, as explained in the article that I linked. It's a UK wide problem seemingly and has happened numerous times since the DM article incident, so clearly not. Maybe one little police dept did, but it's a systemic problem or seems to be. > It’s because of this court decision that your Google search turned up a Daily Mail article from 2019 and not something more recent! I pasted the first result I found. I'm not interested in finding every. single. incident so you can dispute it one by one to keep trying to defend the UK. You either acknowledge there is an issue or you don't, for me, the numerous incidents of this happening are a problem, not just isolated incidents being blown out of proportion. You clearly disagree. > You’ll have to remind me of the Chapter of 1984 in which the actions of the Thought Police are reined in by a system of legal checks and balances… Heh. There were building blocks before Big Brother was introduced, and it was no accident the story was set in the UK either. > But it’s not a sinister Orwellian police state. I never said it was. My claim was that it's closer to being so than any other first world country. Downplaying cops acting as literal thought police (in that they are literally policing thoughts) is a problem and despite your assertion that your willing to be critical of the UK (which I don't doubt but don't tae as absolute), reads to me like being patriotic to the point of denying the issues being discussed.
  - foldr 2y ago
    Indeed, it is probably not a coincidence that George Orwell set his novel in the country that he's from. I think you might be onto something there! > I'm not interested in finding every. single. incident so you can dispute it one by one to keep trying to defend the UK When I Google, pretty much every instance of the police interviewing people about transphobic tweets (that aren't actually hate speech) occurred before the court judgment I linked to. What you're saying in effect is that you want to go with the vibes about the UK you get from Twitter but don't want to look into the specifics and check their basis in fact. If you think there are numerous instances of this happening following the court judgment, and that these instances are easy to find by Googling, then it should be easy to provide sources. I am willing to change my mind if you do that, but if you continue to just assert that this is happening frequently without providing evidence, then I won't respond further. I personally was able to find exactly one incident by Googling (which I would not entirely trust the Telegraph to report accurately): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/15/police-drop-hate-crime-investigation-maya-forstater/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/15/police-drop-hate...
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      > It is probably not a coincidence that George Orwell set his novel in the country that he's from. I think you might be onto something there! Not so much that it just happened to be where he was from but more that he saw issues in the government of the day, some of which still persist since they seem to be cultural. > When I Google, pretty much every instance of the police interviewing people about transphobic tweets (that aren't actually hate speech) occurred before the court judgment I linked to. What you're saying in effect is that you want to go with the vibes about the UK you get from Twitter but don't want to look into the specifics and check their basis in fact. I'm aware of several incidents happening after the DM article linked which was six years ago. I'm not particularly motivated to find incidents and link them here because I think you're in a mode to dismiss anything found to try and defend against the notion the UK is less free than it's peers. I apologize for not being able to take you at your word that that isn't the case. > then I won't respond further. I appreciate that, and think that's for the best for both of us. Cheers.

foldr 2y ago

Erm, it matters because the police were required to change their approach in light of that court judgment, as explained in the article that I linked. How can it possibly not matter that the checks and balances provided by the court of appeal succeeded in preventing future police action infringing on free speech? It’s because of this court decision that your Google search turned up a Daily Mail article from 2019 and not something more recent! You’ll have to remind me of the Chapter of 1984 in which the actions of the Thought Police are reined in by a system of legal checks and balances… > Denying the issues out of a sense of patriotism is how they worsen. You’re way off base here. Complaining about the UK is the UK’s national sport. I’m still bitter about Brexit and could write an essay about everything that’s wrong with this silly country. But it’s not a sinister Orwellian police state. If you want something genuinely sinister, look to the motivations of the people posting nonsense about the UK on Twitter.

kennysoona 2y ago
> Erm, it matters because the police were required to change their approach in light of that court judgment, as explained in the article that I linked. It's a UK wide problem seemingly and has happened numerous times since the DM article incident, so clearly not. Maybe one little police dept did, but it's a systemic problem or seems to be. > It’s because of this court decision that your Google search turned up a Daily Mail article from 2019 and not something more recent! I pasted the first result I found. I'm not interested in finding every. single. incident so you can dispute it one by one to keep trying to defend the UK. You either acknowledge there is an issue or you don't, for me, the numerous incidents of this happening are a problem, not just isolated incidents being blown out of proportion. You clearly disagree. > You’ll have to remind me of the Chapter of 1984 in which the actions of the Thought Police are reined in by a system of legal checks and balances… Heh. There were building blocks before Big Brother was introduced, and it was no accident the story was set in the UK either. > But it’s not a sinister Orwellian police state. I never said it was. My claim was that it's closer to being so than any other first world country. Downplaying cops acting as literal thought police (in that they are literally policing thoughts) is a problem and despite your assertion that your willing to be critical of the UK (which I don't doubt but don't tae as absolute), reads to me like being patriotic to the point of denying the issues being discussed.
- foldr 2y ago
  Indeed, it is probably not a coincidence that George Orwell set his novel in the country that he's from. I think you might be onto something there! > I'm not interested in finding every. single. incident so you can dispute it one by one to keep trying to defend the UK When I Google, pretty much every instance of the police interviewing people about transphobic tweets (that aren't actually hate speech) occurred before the court judgment I linked to. What you're saying in effect is that you want to go with the vibes about the UK you get from Twitter but don't want to look into the specifics and check their basis in fact. If you think there are numerous instances of this happening following the court judgment, and that these instances are easy to find by Googling, then it should be easy to provide sources. I am willing to change my mind if you do that, but if you continue to just assert that this is happening frequently without providing evidence, then I won't respond further. I personally was able to find exactly one incident by Googling (which I would not entirely trust the Telegraph to report accurately): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/15/police-drop-hate-crime-investigation-maya-forstater/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/15/police-drop-hate...
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > It is probably not a coincidence that George Orwell set his novel in the country that he's from. I think you might be onto something there! Not so much that it just happened to be where he was from but more that he saw issues in the government of the day, some of which still persist since they seem to be cultural. > When I Google, pretty much every instance of the police interviewing people about transphobic tweets (that aren't actually hate speech) occurred before the court judgment I linked to. What you're saying in effect is that you want to go with the vibes about the UK you get from Twitter but don't want to look into the specifics and check their basis in fact. I'm aware of several incidents happening after the DM article linked which was six years ago. I'm not particularly motivated to find incidents and link them here because I think you're in a mode to dismiss anything found to try and defend against the notion the UK is less free than it's peers. I apologize for not being able to take you at your word that that isn't the case. > then I won't respond further. I appreciate that, and think that's for the best for both of us. Cheers.