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The elections aren't known to be broken yet, so don't panic just yet but rather watch out very carefully and do whatever you realistically can do (aka bug your

The elections aren't known to be broken yet, so don't panic just yet but rather watch out very carefully and do whatever you realistically can do (aka bug your representatives) so those remain as safe as possible if you notice any attacks on it. The foundation of democracy is term limits and fair elections as means of non-violent change of power. Within the terms, people can elect all sorts of monsters - the key point is that there's a certain end to that, as long as the foundations are upheld and next term new people can come and take over the mess. Unlike Russia, there's no long history of massive election fraud. And that is not broken yet, as long as Democrats don't mess it up too bad and cease to be (turning it into one-party system and then autocracy). Remember, headlines are fighting for views. It is natural that they spread "we're all fucked real real bad" vibes, as they capture attention really well, but also have this side effect of spreading panic. That's not to say I'm happy about the way things are (things are bad), but that it's not as bad as you say it is - so far.

yibg 2y ago
It's probably more grey than that. There are lots of ways to tilt an election without breaking existing laws, especially if you have all 3 branches of government and an execute that'll selectively enforce laws and out in the open go after political opponents.
- drdaeman 2y ago
  Of course, I can’t disagree - that’s all true. But this hasn’t happened yet, so rather than panicking (which, surely, doesn’t help, unless I’m missing something, e.g. if it, say, helps to spread more awareness?), it’s probably best to see what can be realistically done about it, try to do our part, and hope that it will be sufficient. At least I’m not aware about any better alternative.
  - computerthings 2y ago
    It's been happening from day 1 kinda: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5124328-trump-administration-purge-fbi/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5124328-trump-ad... > Some of the first actions from the new leadership at the FBI and DOJ have targeted those who worked on President Trump’s two criminal prosecutions as well as agents and lawyers involved in charging the 1,500 Jan. 6 defendants, who have since been pardoned by the president. Not even "just" political enemies: also people just doing their job, should that happen to go against the interests of the new regime. Still agree with your point that panic doesn't help, and I love that you insist on it. Not even worrying helps! And especially when things are kinda bad people need to find their strength, and each other.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I think one saving grace is that the US federal government doesn't administer elections. Sure, there are things they can do to interfere, but elections are run by the states, and that means 50 different electoral systems to subvert and tilt.
  - MisterKent 2y ago
    Not only does that not need to be the case, he only needs to subvert a few swing states to interfere successfully.
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
Do you consider elections in Hungary to be broken yet? After all, they still happen in a way that roughly corresponds to the way they did 10 years ago. Talk to people who don't support the current leader of that country however, and you'll get a totally different story about the elections that happen there.
- r00fus 2y ago
  GOP is definitely looking to the Orban approach as their guiding methodology for e.g. Project 2025.
- drdaeman 2y ago
  Sadly, I cannot give you an answer to your question. I understand that I have way too limited understanding what’s possibly happening in Hungary (no clue about the actual corruption levels, election laws or, honestly, anything except that it’s said to be not in a good shape), so my opinion cannot possibly be an educated one. I’m sorry. Either way, Hungary and US are certainly different enough so even similar things could work out differently in the end.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > Either way, Hungary and US are certainly different enough so even similar things could work out differently in the end. This mindset is one of the reasons why the US are sliding into authoritarianism and repeating mistakes that were made by many other countries in the last century or so. No, the US are not exceptional and there is nothing unique about American people that makes them intrinsically democratic. You should in fact get yourself familiar with Orban’s Hungary because your future is likely to be quite similar. Also, Mussolini and Putin.
    - drdaeman 2y ago
      I believe you misunderstood me. I did not mean to imply that American people are somehow born with democracy in their genes (figuratively, of course), if that's what you thought I meant. Sadly, I have a non-pleasure of being quite familiar with what happened in Russia in the last few decades. And despite my limited knowledge of the US' political system (that I'm still learning about - it's not a small topic) one thing that I'm very certain that some things that worked in Russia are simply impossible in the US, at least in the way they happened. Let me show you: Putin formed a new KGB (FSB), taking over a decade to slowly grant it more and more powers. He also suppressed the independent media, events including literal police raids of the major television company. He grew the low-level bureaucracy (which seems to be exact opposite of what's happening in the US) and because election process in Russia de facto relies on poorly paid government-ran school teachers (afraid of doing anything to not get fired) he got control of the elections. He also used similar principles to put a lot of pressure on the judicial system. Then he grew the police force (all under Federal government control - different design than US) and took his time training them in extreme brutality (including literal torture). He also took full control of both houses of the Federal Assembly to legislate for him, replaced elections for state-level governors with his own assignments, and did a lot to expand Presidential powers even further. And only then, when he was sure he can contain almost anything, he pulled out an illegal (for some reason he did not follow the legal process but rather made a mockery of it) Constitutional amendment to grant himself his current term. All that said, I hope you can see what I mean when I say that US' situation is somewhat different and things that worked in Russia aren't perfectly applicable. If Trump wants to make himself an American Tsar, he needs to figure his own way to do so, for most Putin's recipes simply won't work for him because all the preconditions are different. I suspect (though, of course, I cannot be sure of it) that Hungary also has a lot of its own nuances. At the very least, Orban is not a President and is operating in a whole different political system. When I said that "similar things could work out different" I was not arguing about or suggesting any course of action or inaction. I've merely stated that we shouldn't think it's all over because some things, events and personalities have some resemblance to other and those others ended badly. This is really complex systems we're talking about, and all the context matters. US still has some safeties left.
computerthings 2y ago
> Remember, headlines are fighting for views. It is natural that they spread "we're all fucked real real bad" vibes I disagree with this. What spooks me out about headlines in Germany is how relatively silent they are about this. I'd say there is WAY more money in oligarchy than there is in all the media in the world selling every single paper and ad, every day. Because in the end, it will include that profit, too. But I still agree that it's never over, but not because there is a hope that some other group might do something, but because tens and hundreds of millions of people can actually do a lot, if they do something.
- Propelloni 2y ago
  Germany, besides domestic topics like an upcoming election, is more concerned about the havoc Trump is heaving on the international stage and how it impacts Germany and the EU (see Tagesschau, SpOn, FAZ, TAZ, etc. the whole spectrum). I can't blame them. The USA has itself basically downgraded from "friend and ally" to "necessary partner", still better than Russia or China, but we are not done yet ;)
  - computerthings 2y ago
    Trump firing FBI and DOJ staff for doing their job, deleting archives, all that stuff? If you just translated English reports on that, just translated some choice quotes and put it on page #1 Germans would probably be more shocked than Americans. And it's directly connected with upcoming elections, and the meddling with them. Media that don't find a coup in the US terribly noteworthy would probably enable the same here.
guelo 2y ago
He already tried once to overturn an election. This time he's way more ruthless and out for revenge.
bvrmn 2y ago
> The elections aren't known to be broken yet Sweet summer child. Let me unfold a very precise prediction: * By the end of 2nd-3rd year. Trump/congress/republican party would propose an amendment that president could rule two consecutive terms. It would be accepted. * Trump would be elected to the next term. * By the end of 6th-7th year there would be proposal to extend presidency to three terms. * Rinse and repeat. If you think it's unreal I have very bad news for you: how often it happens in real world.
- kelnos 2y ago
  There are people in the GOP already talking about a constitutional amendment to allow Trump to serve a third term, so your first point is already happening. The problem is in getting 2/3 of the state legislatures to ratify it. I don't see how that could reasonably happen. Many other countries have constitutions that can be changed directly by their central/federal government. We don't have that. It's a lot harder to amend the US constitution.

yibg 2y ago

It's probably more grey than that. There are lots of ways to tilt an election without breaking existing laws, especially if you have all 3 branches of government and an execute that'll selectively enforce laws and out in the open go after political opponents.

drdaeman 2y ago
Of course, I can’t disagree - that’s all true. But this hasn’t happened yet, so rather than panicking (which, surely, doesn’t help, unless I’m missing something, e.g. if it, say, helps to spread more awareness?), it’s probably best to see what can be realistically done about it, try to do our part, and hope that it will be sufficient. At least I’m not aware about any better alternative.
- computerthings 2y ago
  It's been happening from day 1 kinda: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5124328-trump-administration-purge-fbi/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5124328-trump-ad... > Some of the first actions from the new leadership at the FBI and DOJ have targeted those who worked on President Trump’s two criminal prosecutions as well as agents and lawyers involved in charging the 1,500 Jan. 6 defendants, who have since been pardoned by the president. Not even "just" political enemies: also people just doing their job, should that happen to go against the interests of the new regime. Still agree with your point that panic doesn't help, and I love that you insist on it. Not even worrying helps! And especially when things are kinda bad people need to find their strength, and each other.
kelnos 2y ago
I think one saving grace is that the US federal government doesn't administer elections. Sure, there are things they can do to interfere, but elections are run by the states, and that means 50 different electoral systems to subvert and tilt.
- MisterKent 2y ago
  Not only does that not need to be the case, he only needs to subvert a few swing states to interfere successfully.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago

Do you consider elections in Hungary to be broken yet? After all, they still happen in a way that roughly corresponds to the way they did 10 years ago. Talk to people who don't support the current leader of that country however, and you'll get a totally different story about the elections that happen there.

r00fus 2y ago
GOP is definitely looking to the Orban approach as their guiding methodology for e.g. Project 2025.
drdaeman 2y ago
Sadly, I cannot give you an answer to your question. I understand that I have way too limited understanding what’s possibly happening in Hungary (no clue about the actual corruption levels, election laws or, honestly, anything except that it’s said to be not in a good shape), so my opinion cannot possibly be an educated one. I’m sorry. Either way, Hungary and US are certainly different enough so even similar things could work out differently in the end.
- kergonath 2y ago
  > Either way, Hungary and US are certainly different enough so even similar things could work out differently in the end. This mindset is one of the reasons why the US are sliding into authoritarianism and repeating mistakes that were made by many other countries in the last century or so. No, the US are not exceptional and there is nothing unique about American people that makes them intrinsically democratic. You should in fact get yourself familiar with Orban’s Hungary because your future is likely to be quite similar. Also, Mussolini and Putin.
  - drdaeman 2y ago
    I believe you misunderstood me. I did not mean to imply that American people are somehow born with democracy in their genes (figuratively, of course), if that's what you thought I meant. Sadly, I have a non-pleasure of being quite familiar with what happened in Russia in the last few decades. And despite my limited knowledge of the US' political system (that I'm still learning about - it's not a small topic) one thing that I'm very certain that some things that worked in Russia are simply impossible in the US, at least in the way they happened. Let me show you: Putin formed a new KGB (FSB), taking over a decade to slowly grant it more and more powers. He also suppressed the independent media, events including literal police raids of the major television company. He grew the low-level bureaucracy (which seems to be exact opposite of what's happening in the US) and because election process in Russia de facto relies on poorly paid government-ran school teachers (afraid of doing anything to not get fired) he got control of the elections. He also used similar principles to put a lot of pressure on the judicial system. Then he grew the police force (all under Federal government control - different design than US) and took his time training them in extreme brutality (including literal torture). He also took full control of both houses of the Federal Assembly to legislate for him, replaced elections for state-level governors with his own assignments, and did a lot to expand Presidential powers even further. And only then, when he was sure he can contain almost anything, he pulled out an illegal (for some reason he did not follow the legal process but rather made a mockery of it) Constitutional amendment to grant himself his current term. All that said, I hope you can see what I mean when I say that US' situation is somewhat different and things that worked in Russia aren't perfectly applicable. If Trump wants to make himself an American Tsar, he needs to figure his own way to do so, for most Putin's recipes simply won't work for him because all the preconditions are different. I suspect (though, of course, I cannot be sure of it) that Hungary also has a lot of its own nuances. At the very least, Orban is not a President and is operating in a whole different political system. When I said that "similar things could work out different" I was not arguing about or suggesting any course of action or inaction. I've merely stated that we shouldn't think it's all over because some things, events and personalities have some resemblance to other and those others ended badly. This is really complex systems we're talking about, and all the context matters. US still has some safeties left.

computerthings 2y ago

> Remember, headlines are fighting for views. It is natural that they spread "we're all fucked real real bad" vibes I disagree with this. What spooks me out about headlines in Germany is how relatively silent they are about this. I'd say there is WAY more money in oligarchy than there is in all the media in the world selling every single paper and ad, every day. Because in the end, it will include that profit, too. But I still agree that it's never over, but not because there is a hope that some other group might do something, but because tens and hundreds of millions of people can actually do a lot, if they do something.

Propelloni 2y ago
Germany, besides domestic topics like an upcoming election, is more concerned about the havoc Trump is heaving on the international stage and how it impacts Germany and the EU (see Tagesschau, SpOn, FAZ, TAZ, etc. the whole spectrum). I can't blame them. The USA has itself basically downgraded from "friend and ally" to "necessary partner", still better than Russia or China, but we are not done yet ;)
- computerthings 2y ago
  Trump firing FBI and DOJ staff for doing their job, deleting archives, all that stuff? If you just translated English reports on that, just translated some choice quotes and put it on page #1 Germans would probably be more shocked than Americans. And it's directly connected with upcoming elections, and the meddling with them. Media that don't find a coup in the US terribly noteworthy would probably enable the same here.

guelo 2y ago

He already tried once to overturn an election. This time he's way more ruthless and out for revenge.

bvrmn 2y ago

> The elections aren't known to be broken yet Sweet summer child. Let me unfold a very precise prediction: * By the end of 2nd-3rd year. Trump/congress/republican party would propose an amendment that president could rule two consecutive terms. It would be accepted. * Trump would be elected to the next term. * By the end of 6th-7th year there would be proposal to extend presidency to three terms. * Rinse and repeat. If you think it's unreal I have very bad news for you: how often it happens in real world.

kelnos 2y ago
There are people in the GOP already talking about a constitutional amendment to allow Trump to serve a third term, so your first point is already happening. The problem is in getting 2/3 of the state legislatures to ratify it. I don't see how that could reasonably happen. Many other countries have constitutions that can be changed directly by their central/federal government. We don't have that. It's a lot harder to amend the US constitution.