4 ms·

Though most of the comments are about Trump, I’m happy to see TikTok back (for now). I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go a

by rzz3 2y ago

Though most of the comments are about Trump, I’m happy to see TikTok back (for now). I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go about this, but I’ll take it for now if it keeps TikTok around. What’s most shocking to me, whether you think TikTok should be banned or not, is that Congress was so willing to act directly against the interests of more than half of Americans.

mandeepj 2y ago
> Congress was so willing to act directly against the interests of more than half of Americans National security is in the interest of all the Americans
- lmm 2y ago
  > National security is in the interest of all the Americans No it isn't (there are plenty of people who'd be better off in a less secure America), and certainly not at any cost.
- rzz3 2y ago
  I don’t think the national security concerns have been well asserted. What’s the specific national security issue, and the evidence of TikTok doing it?
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > What’s the specific national security issue The app is owned and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Basically the equivalent of a Chinese citizen using a CIA-controlled app to get their news. It's a very bald-faced security threat. Furthermore, China has explicitly banned any American social media from the Chinese market for years. They know it's dangerous letting foreign nationals control your narrative, probably because they've been exploiting social media for years. Oh, and there's also the electoral controversy: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romanian-elections-using-10-million-fake-tiktok-accounts/ https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania...
    - rzz3 2y ago
      > The app is owned and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. It’s not. It’s 60-something percent owned by international foreign investors outside of China. TikTok user data in the USA is held under TikTok USDS and managed mostly by Oracle as far as I know.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        Those 60-something percent do not control the development of the app or the moderation or the feed or the compliance with American law. It's a given that ByteDance is being used to toe the party line in the same way America might use Meta or Apple to export faux privacy. We are in a standoff situation where the only smart move is to call China's bluff. It will hurt Apple, it will hurt TikTok users, but it will match China's policy of fighting market infiltration by foreign adversaries. A more functional administration would have this rubberstamped and banned in a week's time, regardless of free speech or 90% of Americans losing their FYP. Just look at how fast the EU and UK acted against Huawei. There is no such thing as a free lunch, in router technology or social media.
- macinjosh 2y ago
  That line stopped working after they lied us into the Iraq war.
boc 2y ago
> I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go about this, but I’ll take it for now if it keeps TikTok around. I don't really know what to say anymore. Like literally just staring at this comment and realizing how utterly cooked we are as a country.
talldayo 2y ago
> Congress was so willing to act directly against the interests of more than half of Americans. Welcome to American politics, you seem to be new here. This is a regular occurrence and always boils down to framing: [X] Tiktok is making America look bad vis-a-vis Palestine. [?] China is a domestic security threat and must be stopped. Congress will happily axe your favorite doomscrolling app if it's framed as an anti-pedophile move or domestic security issue. That hasn't shocked people in decades. Furthermore I wouldn't say that "half of Americans" necessarily know whats right for them. We are the fattest nation on the planet, voted Donald Trump into office (twice) and are addicted to social media that we know is harmful. Representative democracy is really a dignified way of letting Americans pretend to control the government while not killing themselves with their own legislation. If direct democracy controlled America's foreign policy, the nation would probably have crumbled by now.
- talldayo 2y ago
  [dead]
drewbug01 2y ago
> I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go about this, but I’ll take it for now if it keeps TikTok around. Put differently, “The ends justify the means.” It’s a dangerous bargain, even in the best of times. And what a price we’ve paid in this instance: the rule of law, in exchange for TikTok videos. I sure hope it was worth it.
- rzz3 2y ago
  Well, the assumption is that an acceptable divestiture is going to happen, but these things take time. And yes, TikTok is pretty special to me and has positively impacted my life in a variety of ways.
  - pests 2y ago
    I’m pretty sure it’s against china law for them to sell.
  - righthand 2y ago
    Why would they sell? Biden spent 4 years trying to get them to sell. Microsoft, Oracle, etc. Tiktok told them no. Tiktok's game is to delay the actual ban because the law is already passed. All they have left on the table is the hail mary support for Trump. Trump has no other moves other than to do what Biden tried doing for 4 years or change the law that Congress and the Supreme Court just pushed through.

by rzz3 2y ago

mandeepj 2y ago

> Congress was so willing to act directly against the interests of more than half of Americans National security is in the interest of all the Americans

lmm 2y ago
> National security is in the interest of all the Americans No it isn't (there are plenty of people who'd be better off in a less secure America), and certainly not at any cost.
rzz3 2y ago
I don’t think the national security concerns have been well asserted. What’s the specific national security issue, and the evidence of TikTok doing it?
- talldayo 2y ago
  > What’s the specific national security issue The app is owned and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Basically the equivalent of a Chinese citizen using a CIA-controlled app to get their news. It's a very bald-faced security threat. Furthermore, China has explicitly banned any American social media from the Chinese market for years. They know it's dangerous letting foreign nationals control your narrative, probably because they've been exploiting social media for years. Oh, and there's also the electoral controversy: https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romanian-elections-using-10-million-fake-tiktok-accounts/ https://kyivinsider.com/russia-and-china-just-rigged-romania...
  - rzz3 2y ago
    > The app is owned and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. It’s not. It’s 60-something percent owned by international foreign investors outside of China. TikTok user data in the USA is held under TikTok USDS and managed mostly by Oracle as far as I know.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      Those 60-something percent do not control the development of the app or the moderation or the feed or the compliance with American law. It's a given that ByteDance is being used to toe the party line in the same way America might use Meta or Apple to export faux privacy. We are in a standoff situation where the only smart move is to call China's bluff. It will hurt Apple, it will hurt TikTok users, but it will match China's policy of fighting market infiltration by foreign adversaries. A more functional administration would have this rubberstamped and banned in a week's time, regardless of free speech or 90% of Americans losing their FYP. Just look at how fast the EU and UK acted against Huawei. There is no such thing as a free lunch, in router technology or social media.
macinjosh 2y ago
That line stopped working after they lied us into the Iraq war.

boc 2y ago

> I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go about this, but I’ll take it for now if it keeps TikTok around. I don't really know what to say anymore. Like literally just staring at this comment and realizing how utterly cooked we are as a country.

talldayo 2y ago

> Congress was so willing to act directly against the interests of more than half of Americans. Welcome to American politics, you seem to be new here. This is a regular occurrence and always boils down to framing: [X] Tiktok is making America look bad vis-a-vis Palestine. [?] China is a domestic security threat and must be stopped. Congress will happily axe your favorite doomscrolling app if it's framed as an anti-pedophile move or domestic security issue. That hasn't shocked people in decades. Furthermore I wouldn't say that "half of Americans" necessarily know whats right for them. We are the fattest nation on the planet, voted Donald Trump into office (twice) and are addicted to social media that we know is harmful. Representative democracy is really a dignified way of letting Americans pretend to control the government while not killing themselves with their own legislation. If direct democracy controlled America's foreign policy, the nation would probably have crumbled by now.

talldayo 2y ago
[dead]

drewbug01 2y ago

> I don’t think Trump ignoring the law is the answer or the right way to go about this, but I’ll take it for now if it keeps TikTok around. Put differently, “The ends justify the means.” It’s a dangerous bargain, even in the best of times. And what a price we’ve paid in this instance: the rule of law, in exchange for TikTok videos. I sure hope it was worth it.

rzz3 2y ago
Well, the assumption is that an acceptable divestiture is going to happen, but these things take time. And yes, TikTok is pretty special to me and has positively impacted my life in a variety of ways.
- pests 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure it’s against china law for them to sell.
- righthand 2y ago
  Why would they sell? Biden spent 4 years trying to get them to sell. Microsoft, Oracle, etc. Tiktok told them no. Tiktok's game is to delay the actual ban because the law is already passed. All they have left on the table is the hail mary support for Trump. Trump has no other moves other than to do what Biden tried doing for 4 years or change the law that Congress and the Supreme Court just pushed through.