4 ms·

Your justification for discrimination against white guys is that a very tiny percent of them are legacy admissions and/or from wealthy families? You know the r

Your justification for discrimination against white guys is that a very tiny percent of them are legacy admissions and/or from wealthy families? You know the rest of them are not benefiting from that in the slightest? Actually they are probably hurt by it under the current DIE platforms. I agree that it would be great if hiring wasn't so focused on a small group of schools(ie excuses to hire people just like yourself). If DIE is replaced it needs to be with a system based on family income not skin color etc.

janalsncm 2y ago
No, I think they meant that removing legacy admissions will result in fewer white guys getting admitted, but that’s ok.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  There is a case for legacy admits - continuity of the culture in a university. The culture of a university is what makes it attractive for the next generation of students.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    Having received degrees from two ivys, and also being part of a legacy that dates back to 1709 at one of those two, i can definitely say that legacy admits dont provide cultural continuity more than the average non legacy student. The cultural transmission gradient is from older to younger students. That said, i support legacies because these private universities at just that--private institutions, and the first amendment gives you the right to associate with whom you wish.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Your example is interesting. Are you sure your dad didn't impart some culture to you, which you (perhaps unwittingly) brought to the university? I'm not a legacy admit (my admission was denied, the fools!) but my dad definitely imparted some of MIT's culture on me before I left for college.
    - JKCalhoun 2y ago
      I assumed it was the professors/faculty that bring cultural continuity to a school.
      - drawkward 2y ago
        Certainly, profs/faculty do being continuity, but I was considering the student experience of the university. (It seemed to me that was what op was asking about with their assumption that said culture was legacy driven) Professors of course contribute to the student culture too, but by no means as much as the students themselves.
    - janalsncm 2y ago
      The First Amendment says the government can’t arrest you for peacefully assembling. It doesn’t say that taxpayers have to give funding to old money private schools. Maybe if there were financial consequences for discrimination they would take a more skeptical look at the value of this “cultural transmission gradient”.
      - drawkward 2y ago
        The first amendment right to assembly is far more nuanced than your proclamation above. A good summary is here: https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/10-right-of-association.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/10-right... There is generally considered rights held by (among other things) highly selective organizations to not have to follow public accommodation laws (which might harm their selectivity).
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Well if that's "the case," I think I'm comfortable getting rid of it.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      Nobody is making you attend a uni with legacy admits.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    There are proven benefits from increased diversity. My point above is that if we are going to do it purely on merit, let's eliminate all biases and not just the ones in DEI.
unclebucknasty 2y ago
>Your justification for discrimination against white guys is that a very tiny percent of them are legacy admissions and/or from wealthy families? "Between 2014 and 2019, Harvard University accepted legacy students at a rate of 33%. This was more than five times the overall acceptance rate of 6% during that period." [0] In 2022, the overall acceptance rate was 3.2%. The legacy acceptance rate was 42%. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences#:~:text=Between%202014%20and%202019%2C%20Harvard,universities%20in%20the%20United%20States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences#:~:text=B...
mmooss 2y ago
> discrimination against white guys Where did I say anything like that? Please quote it - I could have miscommunicated.

janalsncm 2y ago

No, I think they meant that removing legacy admissions will result in fewer white guys getting admitted, but that’s ok.

WalterBright 2y ago
There is a case for legacy admits - continuity of the culture in a university. The culture of a university is what makes it attractive for the next generation of students.
- drawkward 2y ago
  Having received degrees from two ivys, and also being part of a legacy that dates back to 1709 at one of those two, i can definitely say that legacy admits dont provide cultural continuity more than the average non legacy student. The cultural transmission gradient is from older to younger students. That said, i support legacies because these private universities at just that--private institutions, and the first amendment gives you the right to associate with whom you wish.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Your example is interesting. Are you sure your dad didn't impart some culture to you, which you (perhaps unwittingly) brought to the university? I'm not a legacy admit (my admission was denied, the fools!) but my dad definitely imparted some of MIT's culture on me before I left for college.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    I assumed it was the professors/faculty that bring cultural continuity to a school.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      Certainly, profs/faculty do being continuity, but I was considering the student experience of the university. (It seemed to me that was what op was asking about with their assumption that said culture was legacy driven) Professors of course contribute to the student culture too, but by no means as much as the students themselves.
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    The First Amendment says the government can’t arrest you for peacefully assembling. It doesn’t say that taxpayers have to give funding to old money private schools. Maybe if there were financial consequences for discrimination they would take a more skeptical look at the value of this “cultural transmission gradient”.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      The first amendment right to assembly is far more nuanced than your proclamation above. A good summary is here: https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/10-right-of-association.html https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/amendment-01/10-right... There is generally considered rights held by (among other things) highly selective organizations to not have to follow public accommodation laws (which might harm their selectivity).
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Well if that's "the case," I think I'm comfortable getting rid of it.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Nobody is making you attend a uni with legacy admits.
- mmooss 2y ago
  There are proven benefits from increased diversity. My point above is that if we are going to do it purely on merit, let's eliminate all biases and not just the ones in DEI.

unclebucknasty 2y ago

>Your justification for discrimination against white guys is that a very tiny percent of them are legacy admissions and/or from wealthy families? "Between 2014 and 2019, Harvard University accepted legacy students at a rate of 33%. This was more than five times the overall acceptance rate of 6% during that period." [0] In 2022, the overall acceptance rate was 3.2%. The legacy acceptance rate was 42%. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences#:~:text=Between%202014%20and%202019%2C%20Harvard,universities%20in%20the%20United%20States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences#:~:text=B...

mmooss 2y ago

> discrimination against white guys Where did I say anything like that? Please quote it - I could have miscommunicated.