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Completely unrelated to this blog post but I really dislike Fintech saying "Get paid early" in their promos. It's clearly marketing at someone too stupid to be

Completely unrelated to this blog post but I really dislike Fintech saying "Get paid early" in their promos. It's clearly marketing at someone too stupid to be able to see right through how utterly useless that is. If you are celebrating getting your paycheck 1 day earlier (every time) then your financial literally and financial health are probably in the toilet. They _must_ know they are preying on people with statements like that. Then again, 90% of Fintech seems to be just a heavy layer of lipstick over an archaic system. Often with very little care of if any of the tools actually help people and more of a focus on how flashy or how much people think they are being helped.

jkingsman 2y ago
Though, in some cases (like when it's your bank saying it), it's usually just them frontrunning reliable (coming from a payroll provider) and predictable (getting paid the same time each month) ACH transactions with a near-zero likelihood of not settling, then crediting you the money before the ACH is totally settled, so not ALL cases are fintech gimmicks. But most are, and unfortunately, as the proliferation of payday loans shows us, there is no shortage of desperate people and organizations willing to take advantage of that.
- joshstrange 2y ago
  > not ALL cases are fintech gimmicks. Fair and that's all well and good. I'm just saying if 1-3 days delay of getting your paycheck is going to have a big impact on one's life then I encourage one to reexamine their decisions, something else is the problem.
- blibble 2y ago
  as a banker, when I first heard about that I did I wonder if they've modeled that risk correctly it's the sort of thing that could probably wipe out their capital completely in a black swan event
  - simonvc 2y ago
    It's a risk that was very much understood and it's fully covered.
    - blibble 2y ago
      I've heard that one before
      - lol768 2y ago
        I mean, it's been in production for years, has a cap of £20k and I'm pretty sure the design of BACS means it's very difficult to recall a transaction after the 4pm time when the feature becomes available. Simon is probably in a very good position to know how often that sort of thing happened, if ever. I'm pretty happy with them offering this based on my understanding of BACS, as a shareholder.
        blibble 2y ago
        20k... per account? adds up I suppose most people won't have 20k (net) payslips, or draw it all out on pay day! I'm not saying he's wrong, but covering a risk of this nature? I'm sure you'd be able to find someone to take your premiums whether you'd be able to collect on it when needed, in the situation where the financial system is under serious stress is something else (see: 2008)
  - quesera 2y ago
    There's an ocean of historical data to predict reversal or settlement failure of ACH transactions. I would guess that payroll credits are the second most-reliable category in the ocean of ACH transactions, right after US Treasury payments. How black would this swan need to be to blow up this stability?
    - blibble 2y ago
      not sure what american payment transfers have to do with UK BACS payments, but ok > I would guess that payroll credits are the second most-reliable category in the ocean of ACH transactions, right after US Treasury payments. maybe some sort of lunatic getting control of the US treasury payment systems? I suppose that can't ever happen
- quesera 2y ago
  Right, some banks will not post a deposit to your account until after a holding period. I deal with a lot of ACH payments, and despite a very strict schedule in the network, the retail customer-facing side is surprisingly unpredictable. So the "post credit early" promise is not a gimmick, but the whole idea of being paid early is a gimmick. The next pay period is still a full period away, so any benefit to being credited early is literally a one-time, and probably just one-day thing.
- andrewaylett 2y ago
  Remember that Monzo is a UK institution -- ACH isn't relevant, and they can see the payment in flight if it's using BACS. https://monzo.com/blog/2019/08/20/monzo-now-lets-you-get-paid-a-day-early-for-free https://monzo.com/blog/2019/08/20/monzo-now-lets-you-get-pai...
fujinghg 2y ago
[flagged]
- grey-area 2y ago
  I’ve been using it for years and have experienced none of what you describe.
  - fujinghg 2y ago
    I work in the sector. There are lucky people and unlucky people. Welcome to lucky land. So far.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Or maybe you work in tech/customer support and are on unlucky island yourself.
      - fujinghg 2y ago
        Or maybe I just have higher standards and better risk appraisal after seeing their customer support response for two separate people after they had problems was “fuck off and talk to the ombudsman”. Problems being stuck payment during migration to another bank (after payment issues) and a frozen account after false positive on a fraud. No those aren’t fuck off things they are fix them. Missing or stuck cash is not a go away thing unless you are utterly incompetent as an organisation.
        fragmede 2y ago
        TWO people you know had bad support interactions! Well then.
        fujinghg 2y ago
        I’m a statistician. What point are you trying to make? Write it off as an anecdote? It’s not 1999. It’s two observations. Observations lead to questions which lead to collecting more data. Which lead to a conclusion that it is not pretty. When managing risk you judge a company not on a good day but how they handle things on a bad day. And Monzo are terrible. It’s a pattern. Go look and find.
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jkingsman 2y ago

Though, in some cases (like when it's your bank saying it), it's usually just them frontrunning reliable (coming from a payroll provider) and predictable (getting paid the same time each month) ACH transactions with a near-zero likelihood of not settling, then crediting you the money before the ACH is totally settled, so not ALL cases are fintech gimmicks. But most are, and unfortunately, as the proliferation of payday loans shows us, there is no shortage of desperate people and organizations willing to take advantage of that.

joshstrange 2y ago
> not ALL cases are fintech gimmicks. Fair and that's all well and good. I'm just saying if 1-3 days delay of getting your paycheck is going to have a big impact on one's life then I encourage one to reexamine their decisions, something else is the problem.
blibble 2y ago
as a banker, when I first heard about that I did I wonder if they've modeled that risk correctly it's the sort of thing that could probably wipe out their capital completely in a black swan event
- simonvc 2y ago
  It's a risk that was very much understood and it's fully covered.
  - blibble 2y ago
    I've heard that one before
    - lol768 2y ago
      I mean, it's been in production for years, has a cap of £20k and I'm pretty sure the design of BACS means it's very difficult to recall a transaction after the 4pm time when the feature becomes available. Simon is probably in a very good position to know how often that sort of thing happened, if ever. I'm pretty happy with them offering this based on my understanding of BACS, as a shareholder.
      - blibble 2y ago
        20k... per account? adds up I suppose most people won't have 20k (net) payslips, or draw it all out on pay day! I'm not saying he's wrong, but covering a risk of this nature? I'm sure you'd be able to find someone to take your premiums whether you'd be able to collect on it when needed, in the situation where the financial system is under serious stress is something else (see: 2008)
- quesera 2y ago
  There's an ocean of historical data to predict reversal or settlement failure of ACH transactions. I would guess that payroll credits are the second most-reliable category in the ocean of ACH transactions, right after US Treasury payments. How black would this swan need to be to blow up this stability?
  - blibble 2y ago
    not sure what american payment transfers have to do with UK BACS payments, but ok > I would guess that payroll credits are the second most-reliable category in the ocean of ACH transactions, right after US Treasury payments. maybe some sort of lunatic getting control of the US treasury payment systems? I suppose that can't ever happen
quesera 2y ago
Right, some banks will not post a deposit to your account until after a holding period. I deal with a lot of ACH payments, and despite a very strict schedule in the network, the retail customer-facing side is surprisingly unpredictable. So the "post credit early" promise is not a gimmick, but the whole idea of being paid early is a gimmick. The next pay period is still a full period away, so any benefit to being credited early is literally a one-time, and probably just one-day thing.
andrewaylett 2y ago
Remember that Monzo is a UK institution -- ACH isn't relevant, and they can see the payment in flight if it's using BACS. https://monzo.com/blog/2019/08/20/monzo-now-lets-you-get-paid-a-day-early-for-free https://monzo.com/blog/2019/08/20/monzo-now-lets-you-get-pai...

fujinghg 2y ago

[flagged]

grey-area 2y ago
I’ve been using it for years and have experienced none of what you describe.
- fujinghg 2y ago
  I work in the sector. There are lucky people and unlucky people. Welcome to lucky land. So far.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Or maybe you work in tech/customer support and are on unlucky island yourself.
    - fujinghg 2y ago
      Or maybe I just have higher standards and better risk appraisal after seeing their customer support response for two separate people after they had problems was “fuck off and talk to the ombudsman”. Problems being stuck payment during migration to another bank (after payment issues) and a frozen account after false positive on a fraud. No those aren’t fuck off things they are fix them. Missing or stuck cash is not a go away thing unless you are utterly incompetent as an organisation.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        TWO people you know had bad support interactions! Well then.
        fujinghg 2y ago
        I’m a statistician. What point are you trying to make? Write it off as an anecdote? It’s not 1999. It’s two observations. Observations lead to questions which lead to collecting more data. Which lead to a conclusion that it is not pretty. When managing risk you judge a company not on a good day but how they handle things on a bad day. And Monzo are terrible. It’s a pattern. Go look and find.

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