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> I am scared that universal healthcare would introduce so much bureaucracy that doctors will just process you asap I hear this a lot, but that doesn't really

> I am scared that universal healthcare would introduce so much bureaucracy that doctors will just process you asap I hear this a lot, but that doesn't really seem to be what the data says? There have been a good number of studies comparing American healthcare to more socialized systems, and the outcomes are generally comparable or better in the socialized systems. That doesn't imply that if we just changed to a universal system tomorrow that we would have the same outcomes, every country is different, and it's not necessarily guaranteed that copying Sweden's system would automatically work here. But I do think that it's also not implied that it would lead to the bureaucratic chop-shop that people are afraid of.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
It always comes down to who you compare. Most of the cited information on outcomes look at averages. US healthcare outcomes are bimodal. It is easy to sell the idea to people with poor coverage distribution. The harder sell is the people in the better distribution worried about taking a step down while carrying the cost for other people.
- tombert 2y ago
  Yeah, that's kind of why I hedged what I said a bit, because I know things can get a lot more complicated than just looking at averages. I do think it'd be better if everyone had healthcare and it sucked a little vs "some people have good healthcare while others have none", but of course that's a much harder sell.
munk-a 2y ago
A good universal healthcare system wouldn't have these issues but, much with a nod to the ACA, would we manage to accomplish a good system or would that system still be riddled with rent-seeking opportunities to protect the employment and profits that the current players extract? The US seems to have real problems with regulatory capture (especially with recent political happenings where we're seeing tariffs implemented that specifically hurt competitors to those with influence in government) so I think it's important to not fall into a trap of believing you'd walk away with a wonderful healthcare system even if something like medicare for all happened. The entrenched interests would continue to exact their pounds of flesh unless a real sea change was seen away from the current status quo. I do hope it happens though, I'm a Canadian and my employment is dependent on your system continuing as an entangled morass but I'd happily be out of a job if it meant more equitable access to care.
tim333 2y ago
> I am scared that universal healthcare would introduce so much bureaucracy... I use the NHS in the UK and it isn't especially bureaucratic, much less so that the US system. It does have its failings though like wait times to get stuff done, poor communication and the like.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

It always comes down to who you compare. Most of the cited information on outcomes look at averages. US healthcare outcomes are bimodal. It is easy to sell the idea to people with poor coverage distribution. The harder sell is the people in the better distribution worried about taking a step down while carrying the cost for other people.

tombert 2y ago
Yeah, that's kind of why I hedged what I said a bit, because I know things can get a lot more complicated than just looking at averages. I do think it'd be better if everyone had healthcare and it sucked a little vs "some people have good healthcare while others have none", but of course that's a much harder sell.

munk-a 2y ago

A good universal healthcare system wouldn't have these issues but, much with a nod to the ACA, would we manage to accomplish a good system or would that system still be riddled with rent-seeking opportunities to protect the employment and profits that the current players extract? The US seems to have real problems with regulatory capture (especially with recent political happenings where we're seeing tariffs implemented that specifically hurt competitors to those with influence in government) so I think it's important to not fall into a trap of believing you'd walk away with a wonderful healthcare system even if something like medicare for all happened. The entrenched interests would continue to exact their pounds of flesh unless a real sea change was seen away from the current status quo. I do hope it happens though, I'm a Canadian and my employment is dependent on your system continuing as an entangled morass but I'd happily be out of a job if it meant more equitable access to care.

tim333 2y ago

> I am scared that universal healthcare would introduce so much bureaucracy... I use the NHS in the UK and it isn't especially bureaucratic, much less so that the US system. It does have its failings though like wait times to get stuff done, poor communication and the like.