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It seems to be that America is slowly becoming less free; considering factors such as Obama's domestic assassination program, federal wiretapping and more. As a

It seems to be that America is slowly becoming less free; considering factors such as Obama's domestic assassination program, federal wiretapping and more. As an American, I still acknowledge we live in among the freer societies of the world. I still can't help but wonder why the government is increasingly imposing the way it is, history has always shown that repression of almost any form backfires in the long run.

ars 14y ago
Don't extrapolate too far. Wait for the Judges ruling first. It's the job of the prosecutor to claim anything and everything (as long as it's the truth) and let the judge sort it out.
- kbenson 14y ago
  Indeed. The hold-up appears to be because of the wording of the statute, that they need to be notified at their US address. That could point towards either a failure on the part of the legislators, or a conscious effort on their part to keep notices from being served on entities not under US purview. I suppose the judge could attempt to discern the intent of the law and make a ruling that goes with the spirit of the law, but it's noted in the article that the wording is fairly plain, and that doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. Also, I wonder how much people would be complaining about this if it was a drug cartel of some sort (with a corporate front) with seized US assets and a similar defense.
  - Foy 14y ago
    As far as I've read, Megaupload didn't have any U.S. assets. It was all in Hong Kong and Australia. You don't see the U.S. going into foreign countries (on different continents even) and dragging back people and their assets to charge under American law, do you? If a drug cartel is running it's operation in a country where it's not illegal to do so and something like this happened, then I would STILL be complaining about this.
ihsw 14y ago
America was never as free as you thought it was, there was just no way to thoroughly challenge this undeclared freedom (and there definitely was no way to publicly do so as well).
ralfn 14y ago
I think its this constant denial, this lie, "the land of the free", that is the reason why things just dont improve in the states. From the red scare to the people-we-dont-like-are-now-called-terrorist. Why not just accept the fact that Russia, the US and China are most alike when It comes to freedom. And that actually free places, are by definition less powerfull. (because of those pesky morals and ideals). Lets be honest. You are more like Russia, than like Canada. You are more like China, than like Holland. You are not the "country of the free". You are the least evil superpower, and wihout you other nations, like mine, would not be free. So, as a dutch citizen, i thank you for your sacrifice. I thank you for the nuclear umbrella, your inclusive economic nature, and by extension my freedom. Im sorry, that you dont get to experience it yourself. But you cant be a free superpower. There is no such thing.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  I think "land of the free" originally made sense, as it meant "free from British oppression and taxation." In today's context though, it's just nationalist propaganda.
  - slurgfest 14y ago
    How is nationalist propaganda specific to the US?
    - pessimizer 14y ago
      In the spirit of explaining downvotes: You replied to a two sentence post, and neither sentence advanced an assertion that nationalist propaganda was specific to the US.
- dalore 14y ago
  Yes as the USA locks up more people in prison per capita than any other country, how can it call it self the land of the free?
  - cema 14y ago
grecy 14y ago
> I still acknowledge we live in among the freer societies of the world My understand is America is the least free developed country in the world. Yes, it's freer than many developing and undeveloped countries, but saying that is like saying your team is better than the one that consistently finishes bottom of the ladder
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  America has been slowly but surely turning itself into something that, when you blur out the trees to look at the forest, looks more and more like the Soviet Union -- but with capitalism!
ChuckMcM 14y ago
The US is certainly evolving. You can point at a number of things which folks don't like. But history has shown that the system of replacing the government piece by piece over time is remarkably effective and resilient. Many people would argue that the current administration was elected, and a large number on incumbent legislators replaced in 2008, because of the Bush administrations casual disregard for what many considered fundamental rights. Torturing people and warrantless eaves dropping doesn't get you re-elected generally. What happens next is that the new administration tries to understand and rationalize why they were picked. I would say that the President under estimated how much of his victory was civil liberties focused (at least from the more conservative voters in the country). His failure to make any meaningful change in those policies is working against him today. That message has built slowly (many republicans failed to believe it could overwhelm their party in 2008) but steadily. And while many will seek faster results than we are seeing, those with a longer view see helpful signs that suggest the process is working its way toward resolution. Just as it did during other crises in the past.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  I am a fairly conservative voter. I voted for Obama for exactly the reasons you stated. He will not be getting my vote again because, at best, he followed Bush's lead (at worst, he accelerated it). I won't be voting for Romney because I think he will be just as bad. Where's the EFF's candidate?
  - padraigm 14y ago
    Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are both extremely serious about civil liberties. It's really unfortunate that the U.S. political system is so heavily stacked against third parties.
- nirvana 14y ago
  I don't see the replacement. The Obama administration has not turned back any of the violations of human rights from the Bush administration. We have even more wars, even more use of drones killing innocent people, we have undeclared wars in somalia (where the UN is warning passenger airlines to avoid because the skies are filled with american drones). We have the expansion and extention of the PATRIOT ACT. We have porno scanners in the airports and the TSA molesting anyone who opts out. We actually have what is legally assault, and child molestation, going on thousands of times a day. ("oh its outrageous to call it that!" Really? How is it ok for the government to do it but sickening when a regular citizen does it? Hmmm?) We have the assasination of US citizens without trial. We have more asset forfieture- which really is theft. We have the criminalization of private health insurance (which many havent' realized because it hasn't fully gone into effect and they haven't yet lost their coverage.) Obama is like Bush, but without the restraint! I wish things were evolving, but no administration ever undoes the damage of the previous one-- the only way they differ is in which areas of our lives they want to control. Lets not forget that Joe Biden is the architect of the drug war.... so who really believed Obama was going to allow medical marijauna?
wwweston 14y ago
> Obama's domestic assassination program Domestic assassination? Is this a mischaracterization of the al-Awlaki case, or is there something else going on?
rprasad 14y ago
For 80 years, America still had slavery. For 120 years, women could not vote. For almost 150 years, minorities could not exercise their constitutional rights. Assassinating American citizens who have publicly declared war on America is a traditional state perogative that America has always exercised (and which it copied from Britain and France). The only difference now is that such activities receive more attention. The current federal wiretapping is nothing compared to what Herbert Hoover did as director of the FBI. Yes, the NSA has a dossier on most Americans, collected using computer programs. Herbert Hoover did the same thing, without the advantages of computer automation. By any measure, America is far more free now than at any time before the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s. In some respects, (i.e, free speech, religion, gun rights, and sixth amendment rights) it is freer than at any time in its history.
- r00fus 14y ago
  > The current federal wiretapping is nothing compared to what Herbert Hoover did as director of the FBI. Yes, the NSA has a dossier on most Americans, collected using computer programs. Herbert Hoover did the same thing, without the advantages of computer automation. You're confusing Herbert Hoover (the 31st President) with J Edgar Hoover, the infamous creator of the FBI in 1935. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover However, I do challenge your point that the US is "freer", as there are dozens if not hundreds of Hoover-wannabes in government and powerful companies around the country and globe, and who now have computer automation and societal indoctrination from the brain-children of many forever wars (ie, war on terror, war on drugs, etc).
  - AJ007 14y ago
    The state of "freedom" is in constant flux. In comparison to say, 1930, the world is pretty free right now. Just because things seem pretty sane now in comparison to historical insanity doesn't mean we should accept corruption, extra-judicial executions, torture, mass murder, and internal spying operations. Unfortunately that's what we've received. And because its been accepted (in the US, as indicated by record fundraising from both major parties) I fully expect more of it, with ever waning discrimination.

ars 14y ago

Don't extrapolate too far. Wait for the Judges ruling first. It's the job of the prosecutor to claim anything and everything (as long as it's the truth) and let the judge sort it out.

kbenson 14y ago
Indeed. The hold-up appears to be because of the wording of the statute, that they need to be notified at their US address. That could point towards either a failure on the part of the legislators, or a conscious effort on their part to keep notices from being served on entities not under US purview. I suppose the judge could attempt to discern the intent of the law and make a ruling that goes with the spirit of the law, but it's noted in the article that the wording is fairly plain, and that doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. Also, I wonder how much people would be complaining about this if it was a drug cartel of some sort (with a corporate front) with seized US assets and a similar defense.
- Foy 14y ago
  As far as I've read, Megaupload didn't have any U.S. assets. It was all in Hong Kong and Australia. You don't see the U.S. going into foreign countries (on different continents even) and dragging back people and their assets to charge under American law, do you? If a drug cartel is running it's operation in a country where it's not illegal to do so and something like this happened, then I would STILL be complaining about this.

ihsw 14y ago

America was never as free as you thought it was, there was just no way to thoroughly challenge this undeclared freedom (and there definitely was no way to publicly do so as well).

ralfn 14y ago

I think its this constant denial, this lie, "the land of the free", that is the reason why things just dont improve in the states. From the red scare to the people-we-dont-like-are-now-called-terrorist. Why not just accept the fact that Russia, the US and China are most alike when It comes to freedom. And that actually free places, are by definition less powerfull. (because of those pesky morals and ideals). Lets be honest. You are more like Russia, than like Canada. You are more like China, than like Holland. You are not the "country of the free". You are the least evil superpower, and wihout you other nations, like mine, would not be free. So, as a dutch citizen, i thank you for your sacrifice. I thank you for the nuclear umbrella, your inclusive economic nature, and by extension my freedom. Im sorry, that you dont get to experience it yourself. But you cant be a free superpower. There is no such thing.

enraged_camel 14y ago
I think "land of the free" originally made sense, as it meant "free from British oppression and taxation." In today's context though, it's just nationalist propaganda.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  How is nationalist propaganda specific to the US?
  - pessimizer 14y ago
    In the spirit of explaining downvotes: You replied to a two sentence post, and neither sentence advanced an assertion that nationalist propaganda was specific to the US.
dalore 14y ago
Yes as the USA locks up more people in prison per capita than any other country, how can it call it self the land of the free?
- cema 14y ago

grecy 14y ago

> I still acknowledge we live in among the freer societies of the world My understand is America is the least free developed country in the world. Yes, it's freer than many developing and undeveloped countries, but saying that is like saying your team is better than the one that consistently finishes bottom of the ladder

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
America has been slowly but surely turning itself into something that, when you blur out the trees to look at the forest, looks more and more like the Soviet Union -- but with capitalism!

ChuckMcM 14y ago

The US is certainly evolving. You can point at a number of things which folks don't like. But history has shown that the system of replacing the government piece by piece over time is remarkably effective and resilient. Many people would argue that the current administration was elected, and a large number on incumbent legislators replaced in 2008, because of the Bush administrations casual disregard for what many considered fundamental rights. Torturing people and warrantless eaves dropping doesn't get you re-elected generally. What happens next is that the new administration tries to understand and rationalize why they were picked. I would say that the President under estimated how much of his victory was civil liberties focused (at least from the more conservative voters in the country). His failure to make any meaningful change in those policies is working against him today. That message has built slowly (many republicans failed to believe it could overwhelm their party in 2008) but steadily. And while many will seek faster results than we are seeing, those with a longer view see helpful signs that suggest the process is working its way toward resolution. Just as it did during other crises in the past.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I am a fairly conservative voter. I voted for Obama for exactly the reasons you stated. He will not be getting my vote again because, at best, he followed Bush's lead (at worst, he accelerated it). I won't be voting for Romney because I think he will be just as bad. Where's the EFF's candidate?
- padraigm 14y ago
  Gary Johnson and Jill Stein are both extremely serious about civil liberties. It's really unfortunate that the U.S. political system is so heavily stacked against third parties.
nirvana 14y ago
I don't see the replacement. The Obama administration has not turned back any of the violations of human rights from the Bush administration. We have even more wars, even more use of drones killing innocent people, we have undeclared wars in somalia (where the UN is warning passenger airlines to avoid because the skies are filled with american drones). We have the expansion and extention of the PATRIOT ACT. We have porno scanners in the airports and the TSA molesting anyone who opts out. We actually have what is legally assault, and child molestation, going on thousands of times a day. ("oh its outrageous to call it that!" Really? How is it ok for the government to do it but sickening when a regular citizen does it? Hmmm?) We have the assasination of US citizens without trial. We have more asset forfieture- which really is theft. We have the criminalization of private health insurance (which many havent' realized because it hasn't fully gone into effect and they haven't yet lost their coverage.) Obama is like Bush, but without the restraint! I wish things were evolving, but no administration ever undoes the damage of the previous one-- the only way they differ is in which areas of our lives they want to control. Lets not forget that Joe Biden is the architect of the drug war.... so who really believed Obama was going to allow medical marijauna?

wwweston 14y ago

> Obama's domestic assassination program Domestic assassination? Is this a mischaracterization of the al-Awlaki case, or is there something else going on?

rprasad 14y ago

For 80 years, America still had slavery. For 120 years, women could not vote. For almost 150 years, minorities could not exercise their constitutional rights. Assassinating American citizens who have publicly declared war on America is a traditional state perogative that America has always exercised (and which it copied from Britain and France). The only difference now is that such activities receive more attention. The current federal wiretapping is nothing compared to what Herbert Hoover did as director of the FBI. Yes, the NSA has a dossier on most Americans, collected using computer programs. Herbert Hoover did the same thing, without the advantages of computer automation. By any measure, America is far more free now than at any time before the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s. In some respects, (i.e, free speech, religion, gun rights, and sixth amendment rights) it is freer than at any time in its history.

r00fus 14y ago
> The current federal wiretapping is nothing compared to what Herbert Hoover did as director of the FBI. Yes, the NSA has a dossier on most Americans, collected using computer programs. Herbert Hoover did the same thing, without the advantages of computer automation. You're confusing Herbert Hoover (the 31st President) with J Edgar Hoover, the infamous creator of the FBI in 1935. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover However, I do challenge your point that the US is "freer", as there are dozens if not hundreds of Hoover-wannabes in government and powerful companies around the country and globe, and who now have computer automation and societal indoctrination from the brain-children of many forever wars (ie, war on terror, war on drugs, etc).
- AJ007 14y ago
  The state of "freedom" is in constant flux. In comparison to say, 1930, the world is pretty free right now. Just because things seem pretty sane now in comparison to historical insanity doesn't mean we should accept corruption, extra-judicial executions, torture, mass murder, and internal spying operations. Unfortunately that's what we've received. And because its been accepted (in the US, as indicated by record fundraising from both major parties) I fully expect more of it, with ever waning discrimination.