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I didn't say Rust for Linux community, I said Rust community. Here's an example [1]. You don't have to search online forums and mailing lists very long to find

I didn't say Rust for Linux community, I said Rust community. Here's an example [1]. You don't have to search online forums and mailing lists very long to find countless others like this. The problem with the brigading (which has been done by the Rust for Linux community) is that it invites these zealots into the conversation. It's totally inappropriate and not at all constructive towards a compromise. Plus the stated goal of Rust for Linux is to enable people to write drivers in Rust, not to rewrite the whole kernel in Rust. Yet there are countless people in the wider Rust community that believe Rust is the future and every line of C code still in use should be rewritten in Rust. It's gotten so prominent that "Rewrite it in Rust" has become a meme at this point [2]. There are now many developers in other languages (C and C++ especially) who reject Rust simply because they don't like the community. [1] https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux-open-source/1524789-asahi-linux-lead-developer-hector-martin-steps-down-as-upstream-apple-silicon-maintainer/page7#post1524944 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/general-linux... [2] https://goto.ucsd.edu/~rjhala/hotos-ffi.pdf https://goto.ucsd.edu/~rjhala/hotos-ffi.pdf

JoshTriplett 2y ago
The Phoronix forum is not a good example of anything except hate and toxicity, no matter the subject.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Yeah, marcan said so too,on his blog. There's only one place worse on the Internet, according to him... HN.
  - JoshTriplett 2y ago
    I'm quite familiar with both, and Phoronix is much worse. Imagine the worst of flagged/downvoted HN comments, and even worse than that, but instead of being flagged/downvoted, they're just one more comment, which begets replies and further trolling, and gets treated as a fixture. "Oh, there's X again."
mustache_kimono 2y ago
> You don't have to search online forums and mailing lists very long to find countless others like this. So -- you're bothered by people on the internet, but not specifically the Rust for Linux people or the Rust project people? I guess -- I'm sorry people are saying mean things about a programming language on the internet? There are also just as many (more!) anti-Rust partisans out there too, who say lots of crazy stuff too. I'm not sure there is much to be done about it. > Yet there are countless people in the wider Rust community that believe Rust is the future and every line of C code still in use should be rewritten in Rust. So what? Does your C code still run? I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. People are free to think whatever they want, and, if they what to rewrite things in Rust or Swift or Hylo or Zig or Java, that's how many of them learn!
- chongli 2y ago
  People are free to think whatever they want, and, if they what to rewrite things in Rust or whatever language, that's how many of us learn! Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. They aren't free to force others to do the same to their projects. That's what this is all about: a prominent R4L community leader tried to use brigading and shaming to force a Linux kernel maintainer into accepting and maintaining Rust code (along with the entire toolchain to support it). The maintainer refused, Linus got involved, and marcan stormed out of the room. This isn't a debate about technical merits. It's a debate about maturity and what's appropriate for collaborating with others (and what's not). The Rust community has been going through a lot of growing pains over this issue for a while now.
  - mustache_kimono 2y ago
    > Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. Um, or any other they so choose? > Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. They aren't free to force others to do the same to their projects. Where is anyone forcing anyone else to do a rewrite in Rust?
    - chongli 2y ago

JoshTriplett 2y ago

The Phoronix forum is not a good example of anything except hate and toxicity, no matter the subject.

CRConrad 2y ago
Yeah, marcan said so too,on his blog. There's only one place worse on the Internet, according to him... HN.
- JoshTriplett 2y ago
  I'm quite familiar with both, and Phoronix is much worse. Imagine the worst of flagged/downvoted HN comments, and even worse than that, but instead of being flagged/downvoted, they're just one more comment, which begets replies and further trolling, and gets treated as a fixture. "Oh, there's X again."

mustache_kimono 2y ago

> You don't have to search online forums and mailing lists very long to find countless others like this. So -- you're bothered by people on the internet, but not specifically the Rust for Linux people or the Rust project people? I guess -- I'm sorry people are saying mean things about a programming language on the internet? There are also just as many (more!) anti-Rust partisans out there too, who say lots of crazy stuff too. I'm not sure there is much to be done about it. > Yet there are countless people in the wider Rust community that believe Rust is the future and every line of C code still in use should be rewritten in Rust. So what? Does your C code still run? I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. People are free to think whatever they want, and, if they what to rewrite things in Rust or Swift or Hylo or Zig or Java, that's how many of them learn!

chongli 2y ago
People are free to think whatever they want, and, if they what to rewrite things in Rust or whatever language, that's how many of us learn! Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. They aren't free to force others to do the same to their projects. That's what this is all about: a prominent R4L community leader tried to use brigading and shaming to force a Linux kernel maintainer into accepting and maintaining Rust code (along with the entire toolchain to support it). The maintainer refused, Linus got involved, and marcan stormed out of the room. This isn't a debate about technical merits. It's a debate about maturity and what's appropriate for collaborating with others (and what's not). The Rust community has been going through a lot of growing pains over this issue for a while now.
- mustache_kimono 2y ago
  > Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. Um, or any other they so choose? > Yes, they're free to rewrite their own projects in Rust. They aren't free to force others to do the same to their projects. Where is anyone forcing anyone else to do a rewrite in Rust?
  - chongli 2y ago