3 ms·

The article is about medical research on human subjects. And quickly concedes that a great many technically-need-permission things which you might do are of no

The article is about medical research on human subjects. And quickly concedes that a great many technically-need-permission things which you might do are of no actual interest to the gov't. EDIT: <sigh/> The second sentence of the article is - > Like, let’s eat potatoes and see if we lose weight. - which, in the minds of 95% of likely jury members, is not "medical research". Nor, at small scale, of plausible interest to the gov't. If the US Gov't is looking for excuses to crush me, or I've got enough money to be worth a lawsuit, then nothing resembling medical research is needed for them to go ahead with those. Doubtless, I evilly conspired to not pay $0.06 of Use Tax in 2003. And some poor innocent was traumatized for life by my cat looking at them cross-eyed, in a photo I put on the web. And, notice my phrasing - "of no actual interest to the gov't". Not "IAAL, and you're 100.00% okay to run with this".

PaulHoule 2y ago
People might still sue you. I had a stressful event and had a psychogenic fever and lost 15 pounds in two weeks and kept it off for more than six months. There is some research on this [1] [2] in particularly that author wrote a case study about a Japanese girl who was bullied at school who developed a stress fever. Given there is an obesity crisis and everything this might be an effective diet plan, but to do it, you have to induce severe stress. A protocol might be "get 30 people to show up for a weekend encounter group, pick out the 1 person who seems the most susceptible, have the other 29 bully that person." Cal Lightman might get away with something like that in Lie to Me but no way you can get away with that in real life. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27227051/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27227051/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30459027/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30459027/
- pjc50 2y ago
  You can only get away with weird social bullying experiments if you're doing it for Youtube. Don't try crashing a plane for Youtube though, that went down badly with the FAA.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    There was a driver in California who would provoke people on the road and then capture their unhinged reactions on YouTube, editing out the provocation. Eventually he got in a car crash and got in a lot of trouble.
bilbo0s 2y ago
That's playing with fire. You could find yourself standing in front of a courtroom if something goes wrong, or God Forbid, if someone dies, trying to convince a judge and jury with nothing but, "I didn't need government permission". That's not a good place to be.
- temp0826 2y ago
  I used to facilitate the use of an alternative medicine (kambo), which could be dangerous if used incorrectly or given to someone with a contraindicated condition. (It has been linked to a few deaths and has recently been banned in Australia). It occurred to me that even a great signed waiver wouldn't save me if something went sideways and decided to stop. I honestly don't think a waiver wouldn't matter in cases like this too.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    see also certain sweat lodge practitioners
- handoflixue 2y ago
  > if something goes wrong, or God Forbid, if someone dies Does emacs improve your typing speed? STOP! That's human experimentation!! That's the point of the article. Why would you worry someone is doing to die testing their typing speed, or filling out an online survey? You've probably conducts numerous Experimental Human Trials over your lifetime - anyone who is even slightly curious and empirical has!
  - Xmd5a 2y ago
    He's right you know. I have no opinion on this subject but there has been a crackdown against these kind of activities, especially after covid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Casasnovas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Casasnovas
  - apical_dendrite 2y ago
    Not accurate. As the article points out, there's a whole category for "benign behavioral interventions" which are exempt from IRB review.
eadmund 2y ago
Of no actual interest to the government, unless you are someone that someone in the government wishes to crush. ‘Gosh, Opponent of the Regime, when you wrote your blog entry in 2019 about cutting eggs out of your kids’ diets, that was un-reviewed human research. To jail with you!’
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  This is inconsistent with the general line of the Party, comrade. Your train to Vorkuta awaits.
- nxobject 2y ago
  Perhaps the issue there is in electing a government that wishes to crush critics by creatively interpreting the law, and not the existence of IRBs.
- ls612 2y ago
  Yeah, this post reads like “socially awkward guy discovered the mechanism by which the rule of law is a sham and always has been” to me.

PaulHoule 2y ago

People might still sue you. I had a stressful event and had a psychogenic fever and lost 15 pounds in two weeks and kept it off for more than six months. There is some research on this [1] [2] in particularly that author wrote a case study about a Japanese girl who was bullied at school who developed a stress fever. Given there is an obesity crisis and everything this might be an effective diet plan, but to do it, you have to induce severe stress. A protocol might be "get 30 people to show up for a weekend encounter group, pick out the 1 person who seems the most susceptible, have the other 29 bully that person." Cal Lightman might get away with something like that in Lie to Me but no way you can get away with that in real life. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27227051/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27227051/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30459027/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30459027/

pjc50 2y ago
You can only get away with weird social bullying experiments if you're doing it for Youtube. Don't try crashing a plane for Youtube though, that went down badly with the FAA.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  There was a driver in California who would provoke people on the road and then capture their unhinged reactions on YouTube, editing out the provocation. Eventually he got in a car crash and got in a lot of trouble.

bilbo0s 2y ago

That's playing with fire. You could find yourself standing in front of a courtroom if something goes wrong, or God Forbid, if someone dies, trying to convince a judge and jury with nothing but, "I didn't need government permission". That's not a good place to be.

temp0826 2y ago
I used to facilitate the use of an alternative medicine (kambo), which could be dangerous if used incorrectly or given to someone with a contraindicated condition. (It has been linked to a few deaths and has recently been banned in Australia). It occurred to me that even a great signed waiver wouldn't save me if something went sideways and decided to stop. I honestly don't think a waiver wouldn't matter in cases like this too.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  see also certain sweat lodge practitioners
handoflixue 2y ago
> if something goes wrong, or God Forbid, if someone dies Does emacs improve your typing speed? STOP! That's human experimentation!! That's the point of the article. Why would you worry someone is doing to die testing their typing speed, or filling out an online survey? You've probably conducts numerous Experimental Human Trials over your lifetime - anyone who is even slightly curious and empirical has!
- Xmd5a 2y ago
  He's right you know. I have no opinion on this subject but there has been a crackdown against these kind of activities, especially after covid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Casasnovas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Casasnovas
- apical_dendrite 2y ago
  Not accurate. As the article points out, there's a whole category for "benign behavioral interventions" which are exempt from IRB review.

eadmund 2y ago

Of no actual interest to the government, unless you are someone that someone in the government wishes to crush. ‘Gosh, Opponent of the Regime, when you wrote your blog entry in 2019 about cutting eggs out of your kids’ diets, that was un-reviewed human research. To jail with you!’

selimthegrim 2y ago
This is inconsistent with the general line of the Party, comrade. Your train to Vorkuta awaits.
nxobject 2y ago
Perhaps the issue there is in electing a government that wishes to crush critics by creatively interpreting the law, and not the existence of IRBs.
ls612 2y ago
Yeah, this post reads like “socially awkward guy discovered the mechanism by which the rule of law is a sham and always has been” to me.